Shaquille O'Neal: These Two Words Transformed Me from “Clown” to NBA King to Business Mogul

Shaquille O’Neal isn’t just a basketball legend—he’s an entrepreneur, an entertainer, and a master of mental toughness. 

In this episode, Shaq opens up about how his stepfather’s military discipline shaped his habits, the moment that changed his life at age 15, and the two-word mantra that fueled his rise to greatness.

Shaq also shares:

• The moment Julius Erving inspired him to "sharpen up" and work harder
• How he stayed mentally strong through trades, injuries, personal tragedies
• The secret to his success in business and investing after retiring from basketball 

Links: 

• Shaq’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shaq 
• Shaq’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/shaq

 Connect with me: 

• 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paddysgram 
• 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paddysteinfort 
• ✖️ X: https://x.com/paddysx 

 

 

Transcript:

Paddy Steinfort: Welcome to the Toughness Podcast. My name's Paddy Steinfort and we have a huge guest on the show today, and that means literally and figuratively we know, uh, Shaquille O'Neal is a full-time NBA champion, one of the most dominant players in the history of the sport, only one of three players to win the NBA MVP, the all star MVP and the finals MVP in that same year.

But not only that, he has multiple degrees in, uh, a bachelor's, an MBA, a PhD in education. And he's a beloved character away from the court as well. Four albums as a rapper and a DJ. investor and entrepreneur. He just, he covers the whole gamut. Looking forward to this. Going to be a great chat. Welcome to the show, Shaquille O'Neal.

Shaquille O'Neal: Appreciate it

Paddy Steinfort: you joining us. I'm always, uh, pumped. I'm extra pumped to talk with someone like you. You've obviously been a badass in one field in particular that most people know you for, [00:01:00] but you cover such a huge spectrum. I'm actually, I'm, I'm reminded or a metaphor pops into my head. When I met you, I'm not sure if you recall, you came in to speak to the 76ers at the start of the season.

And I remember shaking hands with you, thanking you for coming in and they were great words to our players. And your hand literally engulfed mine. Like, and I'm a big guy. I'm not a small guy. It was, and this, this is the metaphor I'm thinking of here.

We're going to cover a whole lot of stuff in this chat because it's not just about basketball. A lot of the discussion with you will be about things beyond basketball. Let's even say before basketball.

Well, way back when, when you were a kid, your upbringing was a little, very different from mine. Obviously you can hear my accent. I'm not from around here. But growing up in Newark, New Jersey, what was that like as a place, as an area to grow up in?

Shaquille O'Neal: Well, very tough. And my father, stepfather, I don't believe in stepfather, he came into my two, three, four.

Immediately, he trained me to be a leader. [00:02:00] Uh, when I was coming up, there was a lot of dangerous trials and tribulations. I lived in a project, so downstairs you see dealers. Around the corner you see gangs. Around the corner from that you see users. Around the corner from that you see my friends, the juvenile delinquents.

There's always stuff to do. But he quickly got me out of that. And I didn't know what a leader was until I was deemed the best player on the team. I didn't, I didn't know what it took to be a leader. But I realized that all the discipline and all the spankings that I received helped me get to this point.

And I'm one of those guys that I got disciplined very hard, but I'm not. I'm thankful for it, because I have a lot, I've done a lot, and I've been through a lot. And, you know, uh, the disciplines that I receive are very unorthodox, that would never apply today. [00:03:00] But as I look in my house in Vegas, my house in Miami, my house in Atlanta, it was only because of two people, my mother and my disciplinary father.

Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, and that's that's an interesting place to dig into there. Your mother, Lucille. Was 17 when she gave birth to you, I believe. Um, and your father wasn't in the picture, your, your, um, genetic father, I guess, but your stepfather, uh, they got married when you were young and you mentioned that he had some pretty strong discipline.

He, he came from a military background, right? We have a lot of military listeners in this show. And what, what do you think, like, I've heard you share a story actually specific of just to really paint the picture. I'm not sure if this was hyped up or not, but. So sharing a story about how your father would come to school and actually whoop you in front of other kids or teachers, right?

So is that the type of military discipline you're talking about, or is there other stuff in terms of behaviors?

Shaquille O'Neal: One, be kind, be courteous. [00:04:00] Two, dress for success. Three, be a leader. So back in my era, that was when the kids started sagging their pants. I had a little gold chain, I had a little fake earring, you know, I had my hat on backwards.

But when I leave the house, shirt tucked in, I had shoes shined, books lined up neatly. So he'd check in at school, whatever, because the teachers would call him like, Hey, Shaquille's acting up again. Like he told every teacher, if you have a problem on this one, call me. So he'd come and say, you want to be a clown?

And he'd give the other students something to laugh at. We left Newark and we went to Fort Stewart, Georgia. So back then, I think it was called, I want to use the word corporal punishment. You were allowed to get paddled in school. So he'd come in and tell the teacher, you don't need to paddle, let me paddle.

And he'd paddle me in front of all the kids and all the kids would be laughing. [00:05:00] No, I had to, I had to straighten up for a while. Yeah. It took me from 4 to 15 to straighten up. It took me 11 years to straighten up.

Paddy Steinfort: Okay. And so, I remember, so we had Uh, similar system back home where like you could get strapped or some corporal punishment at school.

But I remember that almost emboldened me. Right. Granted, my father wasn't delivering it. So that might've been different. But that was that the thing that turned you like around 15 or it was a gradual growth process. Like, what was there a specific event where you're like, Oh, I got to sharpen up.

Shaquille O'Neal: Yeah. One thing changed me.

Sports. What's that? Sports. Around that time it was a no pass, no play rule. So I was the, it wasn't really, really good, but I was the best guy in the school and everybody depended on me. And I didn't pass, and my father was like, you're good in play. And for the first time I let people down. I let my friends down, I let my family, because I was always [00:06:00] borderline like, Oh, I got a 69.

Oh, Mr. Fink, Mr. Fink, what can I do, what can I do, Mr. Fink? Well, you can answer these questions and bring it up to a 7. Thank you, Mr. Fink. I was always the kid that, I messed around there at the last moment. Like, oh, I got a 69. My dad's gonna kill me. Let me get this back up. One teacher wasn't having it, so I failed.

Couldn't play the championship game. We lose. Friends didn't talk to me. You know, for a couple, couple weeks or whatever. And then my father did something which I thought was weird. He didn't spank me. He just said, hey man, see what happens when you don't be a leader? And he pulled up a post of Dr. J. He said, you like Dr.

J? And I said, yes, sir. And he said, okay, if you, if you get good, good, good grades, I'll take you to a 76ers game. I said, deal. So now, So I get all B's. He has a tear in his eye. See man, I told you, you can do it. [00:07:00] He takes me to the game. We're up high of course, we don't have great seats. And I've never experienced something like that.

10, 13 down. And Dr. J goes baseline and throws it down and the whole crowd stands up. It actually scared me, I thought. I thought it was like a, you know, like a bomb threat or something. I cried a little crazy. And like, it's like the aura of the crowd just zoom and then it went from there to here. And I look at my father and I said, sir, he said, yes, he said, I know what I want to do when I grow up.

I want to be like that. And his exact words were good. From this point on, if you listen to me, I'll make you the best big man ever, ever. So that is what changed me. I didn't want to, I wanted to play the sport and then I didn't want to let people down. So after that, from 15 to now, no problems, no problems whatsoever.

Paddy Steinfort: That's an amazing tale. I get goosebumps there thinking about Dr. J, who's an all time legend, obviously. I've been in that arena, uh, [00:08:00] multiple times. Philly's a loud crowd, and when it goes off, it goes off. Right. And, and for you to feel that, so, you know, internalize that so quickly. And then that obviously drives you a lot from 15 up until you're at LSU.

There's, there's obviously a little bit going on there. You weren't the number one high school recruit in the country at that point, right? At 15? I wasn't. So,

Shaquille O'Neal: you know, I always tell people that life is, goes like this. So even though I was the man at my school at 15, I wasn't the best 15 year old. And that killed me.

So I'm looking. Oh, Larry Fink, the county of Stanford is ranked ahead of me, and it just makes me work. Right? So now, I'm in Germany. WeI get cut. Freshman and sophomore year. Oh, you're good, but you're not that good to make the varsity band. See you later. So now, I'm pissed. I get to Texas, I [00:09:00] get to this little high school, Uh, 269 people from 9 to 12.

Never went anywhere in basketball. Texas is a football state, never went anywhere in basketball. I go to the tryouts, I'm like, Holy shit, I'm the best guy here. This is your team. So now it's, so now it's my team. So now I finally got my own one. I'm high school, varsity, I got my own team. Nobody knew me, nobody heard of me.

First year, we go 35 1. We lose in the state finals. I miss a couple free throws. We lose. So now, I'm pissed even more. So now, again, part two of letting people down. Guy, you took us to military school somewhere they never thought they would ever go. You took them to the promised land, but then you let them down again.

Now I'm mad. Now I can't sleep. So now, next year, I said, Okay, I got you, guy. Next year, I go 36 0. Now I'm a top player in high school. But now when I get to college, I got to start all over again. But I'm [00:10:00] experienced at being at the bottom and rising to the top. See, a lot of people, when they show up, they're at the top.

And then when they go to the bottom, they don't know how to get back to the top. So I've always had experience of being, oh, you're nobody. Hello, Mr. Somebody. Hey, Mr. Nobody. Hey, Mr. Somebody. Hey, Mr. Nobody. Hey, Mr. Somebody.

Paddy Steinfort: What's the key to that for you? Because that's a fascinating insight there that you've got.

I was just getting ready to get to that.

Shaquille O'Neal: My father had a no quit policy. You would get in trouble if you quit. Period. So, uh, I started off playing football. And if somebody hit harder than me and I couldn't get up, if I quit, he'd be like, you want to get hit by him, you want to get hit by me. Okay. Uh, Patty, Patty Stanford is the best football player.

He just knocked my hair out. Get up and go again. Get

up and go again. Get up

Shaquille O'Neal: and go again. And then finally like, okay, Patty, [00:11:00] Patty hits hard, but now I'm okay. So like, you know, some people, when they get to the point to where they think they can't do it, they automatically stop. He's like, no, there is no stopping me.

There is no stopping. You keep going, you keep going, you keep going, no matter what, you keep going. And, before you succeed, you must first learn to fail. Everybody fails.

Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, we'll, we'll circle back to that in a minute. I think that's a, this is a really good place to jump in on a question we ask every guest because the title of the show is toughness.

You've already mentioned a few kinds of examples there and how you developed it yourself as a child, thanks to some great guidance from your parents. What does toughness mean to you in your experience? How would you define that?

Shaquille O'Neal: Well, toughness to me is broken down into two categories, physical toughness and mental toughness.

Let's talk about physical toughness, strong, you lean, you fast, you can run, you can [00:12:00] jump, you're athletic. Oh, I got a little injury. Doesn't matter. I'm still going to run. Mental toughness is always saying, I will, I will, I will, I will, I will. Even if you don't, if you keep saying you will, you will, you will, What starts to happen is you start to believe.

And once you get that belief, it's all over. It's all over the competition. What you think it will become. Like I used to just sit around my house being jealous of other guys that was ranked ahead of me. Oh, I will be the best player in the world. I will be the baddest big man in the game. I will be the first, first guy to have a rap album go platinum.

I will. No, you won't. No, you won't. You're terrible. You can't do that. No, I will. I will. I will. To the point to where I believe it. Like for example, I know I'm not the greatest rapper out there, but I believe I was when I was playing. And I don't care who was out there. I'm going right at you. And that actually [00:13:00] helped me and my team beat Michael Jordan.

I was the last guy to beat Michael Jordan in the playoffs. Because, okay, you're Mike, but I'm Shaq, and I'm going to beat you. Like, you know, we match up pretty even. Penny can guard Mike, Nick can guard Scotty, and go either way. But at the center position, nobody on the team can guard me. So guess what?

That's where, that's where we're going to beat you at. Mike, you're gonna get 20, Penny gonna get 20, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But I'm gonna get 40. Man, nobody gonna stop me. Oh, y'all gonna follow me? Okay. Let me tuck my elbow in and start shooting free throws. That's on the day. Listen, nobody could beat Mike at that time.

Nobody believed they could, but I did. And I've been practicing that ever since, ever since 12 years old.

Paddy Steinfort: And did that flip for you? It's like, is there ever been a time where you started? Cause that's a great mindset to have. It's obviously something that you have developed and it's now a default for you.

But were there things where at first you were like, I can't, or I, you know, not yet. But then you, then [00:14:00] you became a, I will guy.

Shaquille O'Neal: All the time. I couldn't, I couldn't run. I couldn't jump. I couldn't, I couldn't take pain. And then when I wanted to be like Dr. J, my father put me through this karate kid training.

6am. He'd go out with his troops. And he'd tell me, get behind the soldiers. Run the wall. Jump the fence. Move your feet. Hello, I can't hear you, John. That's all. I had to do all that stuff. Then, I had to come home. We got an hour. Break them leaves. You got 15 minutes. Get in there and watch the show. And you better go to school.

Better protect your brothers and sisters. Better be here at 3 o'clock. Get home at three o'clock, he'd come, he'd grab a beer, and he had me do crazy stuff. Go touch that blue car and come back. You better do it for 15 seconds. 16, do it again. So like, I was trying to impress him so much that I [00:15:00] was just doing crazy stuff.

So, what his thing was, you're not going to be great now, but I'm going to just have you doing a lot of crazy stuff. And when it comes time for you to be great, boom. You know, when I first came to the NBA, I was a runner. And the reason why I was a runner because we, we didn't, we didn't have, well, father had one car.

When he came back from work, he's not going back to the top of the base. And I said, Dad, can you take me to play basketball? He said, you got two hours, see you later. Because I had to be in before the, the uh, street light came on. So I would have to run to the gym, which is about two miles. Sprint. Get there, play a couple games, uh, it's 5, I gotta be in by 5.

30. Run back, every day, every day. So now when I'm in high school, I hit the floor, pew! I'm like, damn, I didn't even know what the stuff was going. And now when a guy throws a line too high, ah! And I'm dunking. Now when I get fouled by another guy, it's bouncing off me. All the stuff that he was [00:16:00] training me to do.

It came to fruition. I remember him telling me, Hey, I'm going to make you the best mic man ever. Mentally and physically. He used to always say, I didn't believe him. As I started getting older, I was like, it's working. So whenever he told me to do something, I had to do it. And he was the type that he was never satisfied.

Paddy Steinfort: Well, it sounds a little bit like you as well. I get never satisfied. You have three Peter, which in itself is it is its own achievement. I mean, one is its own achievement, let alone three in a row. Then you go and do it again in Miami, and then you have a 20 year career. And then you go on to all these other successes.

And you mentioned there the running and the endurance of getting to the gym and back and physically we're talking there. But is there an element of a mental and emotional endurance in it as well for you in terms of being tough? Like Let's talk about the career that you had where it was 20 years, it's an all time Hall of Fame career, but there were some challenges in there, right?

Got traded a few times, [00:17:00] had some seasons that weren't up to your standard, free throw challenges all the way through, like, what part of it for you was endurance as well?

Shaquille O'Neal: I was programmed to handle everything. First I got traded. I wasn't sad because I'm like, hey, growing up, I moved every four years anyway.

It's time to go to another place. The most profound thing my father told me is don't worry about the problem, worry about the solution. Too many people go, I got a headache, I got a headache, I got a headache, I got a headache. But the people that worry about the solution, where's the Advil, right? Now I got a headache.

I'm not going to walk around with this headache all day. Let's relieve this headache. Oh, here it is right here. Time out. And the headache is gone. So those people that figure out they have a problem, they need to focus on the solution. Those are the ones that can navigate through life a little bit easier.

And it's tough to do. A lot of people don't, don't, don't have that technique, but I always have that technique. So, hey, I'm getting traded. I'm [00:18:00] not trying to overspill milk. Go to another city and take over. Because remember, I'm at the top. You get traded. Now I'm back at the bottom of the new city. But now they will know the name of the conqueror, Shaquille O'Neal.

They're going to take this city over also. So when I went to L. A., you know, a lot of, we got swept down there every time. Phil comes along, we win our first championship. Larry will tell you, we partied our butt off in Vegas the next day. Oh, bet you can't win another one. See, now, now, now you're challenging me again.

Oh yeah? Can't win another one? Watch this. Oh, two years in a row. Larry Fink holds the shack party at the Palm. Last year was great, but I'm on the repeat. Bet you can't win another one. See, again, now we win three. And then after you win three Management wants to change, oh, Shaggy, you're too old, you gotta go.

You know what? I'm used to moving every four years, so I'll just say I stayed two terms now, eight years. Now I gotta go conquer the lands of Miami. And I do the same thing, so. [00:19:00] Being that I was a world traveler, getting traded never bothered me.

Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, okay. What about the free throw challenge?

Shaquille O'Neal: It wasn't a challenge.

I think it was a blessing to keep me humble. Because as Larry will tell you, when I need to hit them, I'm going to hit them. When I'm going crazy, down by one, up by one, I'm about to shut you up. See, I, like, you know, people thrive on percentages, but I've seen guys that shoot 80%, miss the one that they need to make.

So, you know, the ones I needed to make, I always made them. So I'm not really worried about a percentage, but I just say to myself, if I play it the way I play it. And did all the things that I do. And shot like Steph Curry from the free throw line. I probably wouldn't be in this podcast right now. I'd probably be an arrogant fella.

Arrogant. So, it's just, it's just ways to humble me and show people that I'm here. And then again, even with that, I would miss and I'd come home and I'd be upset but then I'd say, hey man, just [00:20:00] keep working. And I said, you know what? I know I'm gonna hit them. I know I'm gonna hit them when it comes time.

When I get to the finals, Oh, I'm hitting everyone of them. Trust me. I'm gonna hit everyone. I'm gonna look at your fans. I'm gonna look at your cheerleaders. I'm gonna try to get a phone number from one of your cheerleaders. And, uh, that's it. So, again, uh, You know, I always try to Never focus on the problem, always worry about the solution.

Paddy Steinfort: Right. And you mentioned there, those, those clutch shots are the ones that like, really matter.

And

Paddy Steinfort: it's a great way to look at it, because it actually, usually when I'm working with an athlete or a performer, they'll discuss like, the experience of honing in when it really counts. And one of the things that we like, we ask, you know, I had a fighter pilot on here the other day, World Series poker guy, all sorts of people to deal with.

Sometimes life and death or millions of dollars on the line, which is the equivalent of sometimes some of those free trains for you. What was your process when it mattered most? How did you, how did you know that was going to [00:21:00] happen? Was that just a natural thing that, that took over you? Or was it, did you have to work on when it really counts, I'm going to do this to make sure I'm in the moment?

Shaquille O'Neal: I'm a people person. So when people, when people need me. So let's just say I'm having a bad free throw game all game. And I get fouled, and I see one guy. Now I'm pissed. Oh, you don't think I'm going to hit it? Or I look at this stand and I see a little kid going, all right, I got you. I got you. So moments like that, and then I'm about to say something that's very, very dangerous.

Very dangerous, because as you know, athletes deal with a lot of stress. Right. And I'm a very sensitive guy. I watched a movie one time called The Fan. You ever seen the fan Robert Deros? So Robert De Niro kidnapped Wesley Snipes, who was a famous baseball player, and he didn't, he wanted, he didn't wanna do any [00:22:00] harm, he just wanted to talk to him.

He said, man, how do you play so well? How do you hit all these home runs? And how do you do this? And Wesson's nice and said, I don't care. Now Robert gets picked up. Oh, what do you mean you don't care? Wesson said, I don't care. I just go out there and play with a lot of joy and whatever happens, happens. I started thinking that too.

But that's dangerous. Because you have to care. But, so I switched it up a little bit. I don't care what they say. I don't care what they write. Stop reading the paper. Stop listening to criticism. And just focus on what I have to focus on. I want to win a championship. I want my name up there next to the green.

I know what I got to do. I've been doing it my whole career. I'm not going to listen to Bill Plaskey and the ESPN. And once I started doing that, I took off. I really took off. So that's dangerous. I don't want people to hear this and say, Oh, well, shit, don't care. I don't care. I do care, but I don't care about the negativity.

Yeah. You care about what matters. Yes. [00:23:00] Like, like, for example, right now, if I was playing right now, I'd have Instagram, but I have all my comments turned off. You can't be able to tell me. I'm going to, I'm going to put out what I want you to see. Joy, fun, all that. You can't write me back. As Larry knows, if you disrespect me, I'm going to tear your face off.

That's just how I am. But once I saw that movie, he said he didn't care. I was like, no, I'm going to stop caring. And then, hey, everything flourished. Business, life, everything flourished. So, you know. It's

Paddy Steinfort: interesting, you mentioned there about having fun, if you had an Instagram back in the day. And I'm doing a little bit of research before the show.

I found the, uh, the dissertation you did for your PhD. Right now I haven't, I'll be honest, I haven't read the whole thing, but the title really grabbed my attention. The Duality of Humor and Aggression in Leadership Styles. Now that's a long time ago, I assume. But it is, it does strike me, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners, that you are a fun guy.

[00:24:00] It's a part of your persona. Is that something you deliberately pursue because it's helpful, or it's just like an expression of who you are?

Shaquille O'Neal: Well, no. One, I've always been a class clown. Two, you see me as this big, rawr kind of guy. And once you think I'm one, it's just who I am. The reason I chose that title for the dissertation, I was anxious to see which leader was more effective.

I got the idea because every time Steve Jobs talked about the iPhone, it was great. I'm like, man, I would love to work for this guy. Right? And then, you know, when I was interviewing people, I interviewed people from Apple, people from Microsoft, a couple, you know, interviewing people in a couple of casinos.

And what I figured out is that people have to modulate. Nobody is 100 percent one way. So when I went and met the people with Apple, It says Steve Jobs didn't mess around. Steve Jobs was, so, Steve Jobs was 80 percent serious and 20 percent [00:25:00] humorous. And I also got the idea because when I played with Phil Jackson, it was hey, ha ha ha ha ha, we won three.

When I played with Pat Roddy, it was shut up, body fat, blah blah blah, so everyone won. So, my conclusion is that both styles can be effective in the short run. But in the long run, if you're having fun, if you're doing what you really love and you have a little bit of sensitive humor, because you know, the rules change like, you know, when it comes to humor now, you have sensitive humor, uh, that could be a more effective.

in the long run. You know, being humorous these days, you have to be careful, especially in the workplace.

Paddy Steinfort: It's interesting that that's your gut feel and your intuition and obviously what you discovered in your dissertation, but there's a lot of research as you have found that shows that humor does decrease stress in some of those key moments, right?

And it also builds trust because people feel like they can be themselves around you. So there's a, there's a number of benefits there that makes [00:26:00] sense from both the performance point of view, but also just a support point of view. And I want to pivot to that for a moment here, because this is an element of, of toughness that is often downplayed, I'll say, like a lot of people, the great stories of, you know, the gritty person who made it all on their own and they pushed through.

You've already mentioned two of your great helpers and guiders in your early journey and moving forward as well. They didn't just stop once you made the NBA, the ability for people to have a community around them and heroes to look up to is a key part of it. You yourself are a proud member of the Omega Psi Phi fraternity.

And using that maybe as an example or other communities, like, how have other people helped you remain tough?

Shaquille O'Neal: Well, my

I have a panel. My

panel consists of Dr. Lucille O'Neill, which is my mother, Mike Parrish and Jerome Crawford, Kerry Rogers, and one other person, Gail Brown. [00:27:00] I am the, uh, but they're above me. I'm President of Congress. These are the only people that when they tell me I've done wrong, I know that I've done wrong.

Dale Brown or somebody from my panel said you shouldn't have smacked that guy. It's nothing to talk about. Mr. James, I know we had an altercation and I punched you.

I apologize. You know, I know. They keep me humble. Um, I always talk about People always recognize, let's just say the Golden Gate Bridge. Oh, the bridge is beautiful, the lights. Nobody talks about the legs. Legs are in the water, cold. Legs are trying to hold it up when there's an earthquake. Legs are the true heroes of the Golden Gate Bridge.

So even though I own the shack, a lot of people run in my program. Unless you're my mother, so. Everything I do, community wise, [00:28:00] like all that giving back, I don't like that term. I like doing what you're supposed to do. If I got a million dollars and you see a guy out on the street with nothing, take care of the person.

True story, New York Knicks vs. I had a terrible game. I was pissed. Get your ass back home now, man. We got a new, we got a game in two days in D. C. No, bring your ass home now. Rent a jet. Yes, sir. As soon as I get the door. You couldn't have the depression? And you, and you're not supposed to say no, I can't.

But I can't say yes, I could, because I had a terrible game. So I messed around and said no, I couldn't. Now he's mad. Slams the door on the window, let me come in. Get in the car. So we ran out in the car. And it was this homeless family that he always used to take care of. Husband, wife, and two kids. They lived under this bridge.

He'd bring them food, he'd take them to Walmart, he'd get them clothes, he'd get them [00:29:00] blankets. And we'd just sit and watch this family. I said, what are you doing here? He said, you spoiled little freaking brat. You made 40 for 7 million years, and you're talking about pressure? Look at that. That's pressure.

Pressure where you don't know where your next meal is coming from. And it was a Monday. It was early Monday, like, you know, 12 1, get out. What do you mean get out? Get out. So now I'm out. So now I'm talking to the guy. It's just beautiful, but it's sad. But he was telling me to get out and handle it. You can't handle that pressure.

Now fix that pressure. So I called a friend of mine and said, Hey man, you got a couple apartments we can rent? Yeah, I said, I'm gonna put this apartment in my name. Go to the furniture store, get the guy furnishes the bed. Like, all this in one day. And I said, my man, uh, got your apartment, got your dad, here's some cash.

What do you like to do? He said, man, I can't do much, but I can, I can definitely cut some grass. [00:30:00] Hey, Tom, I got a dude, uh, boom, boom, boom, boom. Put him on your team. You know that new tractor you were trying to get? I'm gonna get it for you, boom, boom, boom, just put him on your team. And to this day, the dude still cuts my house.

still cuts my house. So once I saw that, I deleted the word pressure from my program. There's no such thing as pressure. So because like that, that that touched himself.

Paddy Steinfort: How's your next game after that? Had the pressure didn't affect you after that?

Shaquille O'Neal: No, I went off, but I like taking care of homeless people. I like taking care of kids.

I don't like doing what I'm supposed to do.

can help you and make you smile, that is better than any of these championship trophies.

Paddy Steinfort: It's a, it's a great philosophy that you've developed over the years.

And I know that makes me think of one of your nicknames, which is the big Aristotle. That was, that was self proclaimed nickname. Or did someone give that to you?

Shaquille O'Neal: No, what happened was, uh, I was [00:31:00] receiving my MVP trophy and I wanted to hit it with a profile quote. I have a quote book. So I was reading my quotes and then I came to the excellent.

It's not a singular habit. You are what you repeatedly do. I was like, you know what I did work my ass off to get the trophy. I'm going to say this one. So I just caught myself. Yeah.

Paddy Steinfort: And it does reflect in your story ongoing, right? It's not just the single acts. This is everything you're mentioning here.

You've got multiple examples. There is a standout, um, moment in time for a lot of people in the industry, but particularly for yourself, um, way back in 2017, I think you tweeted or you made some mention of. Mental health, people struggle. You said something like on Twitter, many people struggle, but not enough people talk about it.

You're promoting a service that helps people do that. But then fast forward, um, to the horrific tragedy of Kobe's passing with his daughter. [00:32:00] And it obviously hit hard for a lot of people. I remember vividly the night when I was with the team, when we found out what 76ers players and staff were all affected, mostly to tears.

This guy was a hero for a lot of guys. He's not only a hero for you, he's a teammate, someone you shared success with and a rare spot in the limelight next to each other. And so I can only imagine how hard that must have hit you and your family. How did you manage the emotions of that tragic time? Did you talk to someone?

Did you start a conversation? Like what, what was your process for working through that and potentially still working through that? Uh, a

Shaquille O'Neal: couple months before that, my baby sister died, so I was already down and he passed away. I am a realist about certain situations. We're all going to die, right? My sister had cancer.

What I was upset about is Bro, you're working so hard. You only saw your baby sister [00:33:00] four times last year. You know, my family is the type of family they don't want to hit me with stress. So this is her third time having cancer. So she beat it the first time, she beat it the second time. So when I, when they told me she had it, I was in, she's going to beat them all.

Never knew it was stage four. If I knew it was stage four, I would have dropped everything I did. Took it to London, took it to Europe, took it to Egypt, took it to the Bahamas. Well, that's what's killed me the most. We got to solve four times. And then, I'm already down. And then I'm at the gym one day, working out with one of my sons.

And one of my other sons comes in crying. And he hands me the phone. And I'm always the one to try to stop time and figure it out before midnight. My mom okay? Your mom okay? Like I'm just trying to figure it out Cause he's crying so now I gotta be strong for him Just trying to figure it out And then I look at it and it was like TMZ And I was like Cause I watched the game the night before When LeBron passed him up So you [00:34:00] know, I never trusted him in that I'm like, this is a hoax, stop it And then the phone call Boom, everybody called me So now, I gotta bring it down again But now I go back to We never really talk like we should have.

And now we can never talk again. So it kind of put me in a state of mind that I need to reach out to old friends and family to say, Hey, how you doing? Because you never know when it's allowed to, you know, I'm, I'm still dealing with it. You know, he's on, he's on Instagram and TikTok every day. So he'll never be forgotten.

I'm more concerned about his mom and dad and his family. Like I'm hurting, but I know they're, I don't know, they're in the torture chambers right now, his wife, his kids. And, uh, you know, I think about it all the time, but, you know, my, my father, when he went to his mother's funeral, didn't cry. I'm like, damn, man.

[00:35:00] So, I finally pulled him to the side, because I'm older now, and I can probably beat him up on top of him. I said, hey, man, you all right? He just Life goes on. Let's go, brother. So, now that he's gone, I have to assume that role. And, cried a little bit with my sister, cried a little bit with Kobe, but, Hey, gotta, gotta move on.

I got six children I gotta take care of. I gotta take care of my mother, my brother, and my other sister. And I'm blessed. Not only am I blessed, I'm the CEO of this family corporation. I don't have a, I don't have a successor yet. A couple of people in line, but I tell my kids, you gotta have two degrees to touch any of my cheeks.

So if I go down, the kingdom will crumble. So mentally, being that I was raised by the toughest man in the world, there's not a lot that can break me mentally. And then if I ever start getting, getting to where it's moom, moom, moom, moom, I [00:36:00] go through a process where I just breathe and just think about positive stuff.

I have never been the one to talk to people. Ugh. If I ever get really, really, really, really down, I'll talk to Dr. Lucille O'Neill. But I don't like to put pressure on her either, but You know what gets me out of it? What's that? I look around, and I can hear my father saying, Stop crying. Man up. Man up. Like, I remember one time I had an injury.

I didn't play. Father. Where you at? I'm in D. C. Call, call Colonel Larry Fink. He wants to meet you. Meet with Colonel Larry Fink. Where we going? Are we going to Walter Reed Hospital? What's that? Soldiers. Limbs cut off. Boom, boom, boom. I met a guy with no arms and no legs, and he wanted to go back and fight again.

And I said to myself, you know what? I'm never crying about an injury again. Ever. You got a guy, he has no arms, no legs. He ain't complaining. He said, [00:37:00] Hey, man, I'm, I'm working with the government, but I'm about to get these Robo company and I'm going back. I'm like, you're going back. You're like, yeah, I'm going back.

Like, that's, that's just my, I'm like, you know what, I was, uh, you know, what, a little toe injury and couldn't run off the court and jump up and down, so I'm not gonna play. I just felt really bad. So what made me great is not working out, it's stories, profound stories made me. Well, so. You mentioned a lot of

Paddy Steinfort: people relying on you, depending on you, right?

The Shaq CEO, CEO of Corporation Shaq, right? Inc. Um, how do you, if you happen to see someone who depends upon you and they're struggling, so you, you've got your own processes for working through it internally and for you to talk to your mom if you really, really need. But what if you see someone who depends on you who is actually like hanging by a thread?

Like your mom has written about some of her own struggles, right? How do you [00:38:00] help people around you? I try to tell them stories.

Shaquille O'Neal: That's the first thing. But then I realize I'm not an expert. Like, okay, well I see they need help. I'll call a friend of the family and really give them help. I always try to go the simple route first.

Simple route first for me is the hero route. And one of my sisters would never ask me for anything. She'd just do a lot of crazy stuff. And then when I see her, I'm like, what are you doing? And I tell her, what's wrong? I'm sorry, I spent 5, 000 on the credit card. I got you. I'm worried about it. I mean, I, this I can handle, but if it's something I can't handle, I'll try to tell the story one time.

But the days to that, see if that works. If that doesn't work, I just have to get them help. Because mental, mental health is real. And a lot of people don't understand, but it's not for you to understand. You have to understand how this person feels. You have to understand how we can help this person get better.

And, uh, I know I'm not an expert. [00:39:00] I tell a lot of funny, inspirational stories. Because those stories were told to me. And I just try to lift, lift a person's spirit. But if that doesn't work, I'll, I'll have to get them help. My spirit never gets below 50 percent because I'm not allowed to. My father in law allowed it.

And then too, I just try to plug all my formulas. I don't worry about the problem, I worry about the solution. Stand up. Stop being a punk. And then, this right here. I always said to myself this, this always gets me, this is my key term. It could be worse. It could be worse. As I look around where I live and all I do, I say shut up and start complaining and handle it.

Shut your butt up and just shut it up. Cause it could be worse. Cause Larry and I, we know some people that used to hang out with us and spend big money. Now they don't have two dollars to their names. Which is sad. So, before I start, it could be [00:40:00] worse. I'd be like, you know what, it could be worse. Why don't you stop worrying about your problems and go, go help somebody else.

So, now my mission is every time I go to a big time store, I'm helping somebody else. Well, the other day I was in Best Buy. And I seen a family. Beautiful family. Guy, husband, two daughters. They had a 45 inch TV. They had a whole bunch of coupons, but they were so happy. Oh man, Netflix, Hulu, they were happy.

But I'm not letting that ride. Because, I'm going to tell me that when the 75 inches first come on, I'll buy it. They're 5, 000. But now they're 700 for a 75 inch. I'm not letting this ferry anymore happen with no 45 inch. And, I already knew what I was going to do before I got there. Excuse me sir, what kind of car are you driving?

I got an F 150. Perfect. Put that little 45 down over to your 75. What? I said go get a 75. No, no, I can't. Brother, I'm telling you. Go get a 75. I'll take care of it. So, making [00:41:00] them happy, makes me happy. Now, I'm like this when I go home. So the problem, the little problem that I had, I throw some of the happy juice on it, and it starts to sink up.

Starts to go away. And then I can go back to normal. Okay, what happened? I'll do it. Okay, I can do this. I So now that I'm happy, it changes my, It changes the fluids in my body and my brain, and now I can deal with the problem that I'm dealing with. So whenever I get down, I just say, shut up, because it could be worse.

Man up, figure it out. That's what my father would say, shut up and figure it out. Why'd you listen to Tony Frico? I don't know. Shut the hell up. I told you how to shoot when you were five years old. Figure it out. You know, he'd just hang up. You can do it. You ain't no punk. And he'd just hang up.

Paddy Steinfort: So it's a great, a great example there of, you know, you talk about, uh, obviously we all have people that we remember vividly their words that you've mentioned a few specific ones from your dad, but being able to take that and turn it into a, you know, flip it not only to help you get through a problem, but also to help other people you mentioned [00:42:00] you spread your happy juice on it with your words there, where it actually, it does change your physiology.

And you're able to go into the next situation better. Let's, let's pivot now to your business stuff that you've moved on to after you, your game. I know we're coming up on finishing the show, but I, I, it would be selling you short to not mention that your total net worth, forget about the fact that you earned a lot of money playing basketball.

More than triple that since, right? You've got a number of investments, number of franchises, um, a number of startups. You're kind of a self made entrepreneur in that sense. How much of your business, your approach to business is partly your competitive juices? Like you want to win. So I want to make this deal to win.

I want to be the best. I want to be the smartest. I want to be on the edge here, right? I want to dominate that area, just like I've dominated basketball. Or how much of it is, I want to actually make a difference here in this community. I'm trying to win this deal so that I can impact people's lives.[00:43:00]

Shaquille O'Neal: It would be the second part, but later on a good investment, a good businessman out of fear. 73 percent of all professional athletes, five years after they're playing have.

Paddy Steinfort: Zero, big zero. And is that, is that because you actually went there? Like you lost your money or you just saw other people?

Shaquille O'Neal: Every time an athlete did something crazy, I would get disciplined.

So, there's a reason why I don't do drugs. You ever heard of limb bias? Yep. So, limb bias, passed away. My father comes in the house, furious. Tears. Uniform, ripped off. Grabs me, throws me around the house. It was probably the worst discipline I got. Said, if you ever do coke, I'll kill you. I'm young at the time.

I'm like, Dad, we drink Pepsi. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about drugs. I don't think he's disciplined me. He sat me down and we watched a story. And we cried together. My father was like, this kid, he's going to be the best kid and he'll [00:44:00] mess up. Never doing drugs. One time he caught me sipping beer.

Oh, you want to be a man? Drink the beer. Drunk a 12 pack to the head. I hate beer. Right? Drinking and driving, doing drugs, never do that. So, you know, every time an athlete would lose his money, he'd just be mad at me. So I said, you know what? I got to figure ways to, to at least have a little bit of money. Uh, I'm not, I'm not a genius, like, you know, they always say, invest, invest, invest.

You gotta be educated to know what you're investing in. And then, so like, when I first got into the game, I only had two rules. If it's too good to be true, stay away from it. If it's safe, get into it. So I met with a guy, He said, hey man, government bonds, six, seven percent.

Some annuities, so when you stop playing. You had this much coming in. That was the first thing I did. So, alright. So now I meet Magic Johnson. [00:45:00] Magic Johnson says, Oh, it's good to be famous, but you want to start owning stuff. I didn't pay him no mind. Until one day I'm walking by and I see a Magic Johnson 24 hour fitness.

I'm like, And then I see a Magic Johnson Starbucks. I'm like, And I see a Magic Johnson Theater. I'm like, But this was around the time I was getting my Master's in. My first book I got was Dummy's Guide to Starting Your Own Business. I'm like, damn, this is how they do it? And my favorite chapter is Joint Ventureship.

I'm like, hmm, okay, this is how I could still do what I do, but I own some stuff, like boom, boom, boom. Like, if I want to get a podcast, and, uh, I'm gonna call my guy Patty, get with his company, I'll put the money out. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Shaq and Patty and Shaq. Patty and Shaq. Right. So once I, once I mastered the joint ventureship, it was easy for me to get into business.

So first thing I did was start a shoe line [00:46:00] at the joint venture. I don't want to shoot. So I did a deal with Reebok. I did that. I said, okay, we got this, uh, did a joint venture with Jive Records. So that was a way for me to own things, still do business and have the knowledge of how the business is supposed to be ran and still play basketball.

Cause I did research. I'm like, I just got to mess up on the restaurant. Is he actually trying to run a restaurant like he was a restaurateur? I said, no. So what am I going to go to Vegas. I'm gonna meet a couple guys. Hey man, you want to do a restaurant together? Yeah. Oh, my restaurant is successful. Hey man, we got another space.

Let's do another restaurant. Hey man, did Paris Hotel love us? We got the restaurant here. We got the one on the bottom. There's a space. Oh, let's do a club. Oh, so like, it's just, but it's all about joint ventureships. Larry knows my partners. I trust them. They trust me. I'm the money guy, and we do business together.

It was all done out of fear, not because I'm some big business expert, like, [00:47:00] I don't want to be one of those guys that have nothing. I need something. So, you know, I got a whole bunch of money just sitting here not doing nothing. I just take a little piece and see what it does. Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Because every time I try to get with the get rich quick stuff, I lost my ass. And then, when I became older and started becoming wiser, I started really getting into investments. I go to all the tech summits in Vegas. I'm a geek. I want people to know that I'm a geek. I mean, I love technology. So I'm watching Jeff Bezos speak about him starting Amazon.

I was like, man, if he pulls this off, it's going to be brilliant. But he said, I invest in things that's going to change people's lives. And Amazon is going to change people's lives. And once I heard that, now when I invest, it's all about that. It's all about that. So I've been, I've been lucky. I don't want to act like I'm an expert.

And the best thing, you know why I love smart people, Patty? [00:48:00] Why's that, Shaq? Because they all work for me. I got people smarter than me. Eisenhower said the greatest leaders are the ones smart enough to hire people smarter than them. So. There's been a lot of guys that have been in my position to act like they know what they're doing.

We don't know what we're doing. We know what basketball is. We don't know nothing about ROIs and how to run a restaurant and how to deal with the city and get permits. You gotta get somebody that you trust to do all that. And then, you have to be educated enough to look at the books. See, I can, I can call any one of my businesses and look, Hey man, send me, send me last month's reports.

And I'm educated enough to say, Hey, hey, hey, hey, what's this 1500 for? Who? Who was he? I wasn't aware of that. Give me on the phone with him. So I'm educated enough. Look at the book, but when you have trust and you have honor, none of that stuff is necessary.

Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. You, you mentioned there a lot of things that you don't know about in some businesses, you do know sport.

[00:49:00] Is there any itching for you to get involved? This is totally a curiosity question of mine, more than relevance to the show, but LeBron just bought into the, uh, Fenway Sports Group. You got any interest in, in buying into sports franchises or is that something that's too close to home for you?

Shaquille O'Neal: Well, I'm, I'm a minority.

Order Sacramento. There you go.

Paddy Steinfort: Should have done more research.

Shaquille O'Neal: Yeah, doing that.

Doing a lot of stuff. I don't like to tell people what I'm doing because it seems like bragging sometimes. I don't want to be one of those athletes that Larry knows look at me on my chin. I'm counting money on my chin. Look at all the cars. I never wanted to be like that. I wanted to be an inspiration story.

Paddy Steinfort: That actually reminds me. I hadn't even thought of this. It just hit me right now. This reminds me of, uh, I'm, I'm maybe two years into my time in the U. S. I'm working in pro sports, shipping from one minor league team to another [00:50:00] right now, right? I'm working across all levels of one of the MLB teams. I'm in a Delta lounge and I look up and I see probably the biggest human being I've seen in my life standing at the gate in front of me.

But Shaquille O'Neal getting on a commercial flight. And I'm just like, what? Wait, what? What is it? This guy is one of the richest athletes, one of the most successful athletes, and he's flying Delta. Barely fits in a first class seat. Like, is that something that you carried on, or was that like a, you had a snafu with one of your bookings?

Shaquille O'Neal: I was, I was, I was, I didn't want to feel bougie by flying private, but I, I fly private now. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie to you now, but. When I first started off, I didn't want to fly private, but it's just, you know, with the COVID and all that stuff, I'm like, I'd rather just, you know.

Paddy Steinfort: It makes sense. It makes sense.

That's why my mind was blown at the time, like, well, unexpected starting to wrap up the show here. We really appreciate your time. You mentioned there in that last little [00:51:00] bit about, um, Jeff Bezos investing in things that are going to change people's lives. We want to finish off with really, we've talked about your amazing journey from being a kid growing up in a real bad area of New York, New Jersey, having a rough upbringing.

Getting thought discipline along the way becoming one of the best of all time in your domain and then Spreading out to other domains doing things that people never get to do even if they spend their whole lives in that You've had a great journey, but we're only we're only just getting started, right?

We're still going what's the what's on your plate right now? What inspires you? What are you aiming to do that impacts people's lives beyond what you've already done?

Shaquille O'Neal: Uh,

Paddy Steinfort: yeah,

Shaquille O'Neal: I got a couple business deals coming up all eyes on me. So especially when it comes to social media This is my methodology behind social media. 60 percent to make you laugh, 30 percent to inspire you, and 10 percent to let you [00:52:00] know what I got going on when I sell it. Uh, this, I want to be the guy that when you see, automatic smile.

I want to be the guy that when you, when you run into, you know you can have a conversation with. Like, people are amazed that when they see me, I'm by myself. You don't have an entourage, man. What's an entourage? You don't have a bodyguard. What do I need a bodyguard for? Like that, like, like, people are really amazed.

Like, brother, you, you got insecure? No. Like, bro, you're in a Dodge Charger? Yeah, what else would I be in? Like So I don't, I don't consider myself a superstar. Because superstars are crazy. And I don't want to be in that category with those idiots. I'd rather, I'd rather be demoted back down to regular people like Larry and Patty.

I don't want to be no spoiled superstar and the crazy shit, excuse my friend, the crazy shit that they do. Um, I'm not, I'm not a superstar. I'm just a guy that listened to his family, that believed in one word and [00:53:00] that word was belief. It's the only word I had. Oh, I believe I can do it. No, you can't. I believe I can do it.

No, you can't. I believe I can do it. No, you can't. Alright, we'll see. So, and you just keep going with that. And I'm not allowed to give up. I've never in my life thought about giving up. Uh, you know, there's a difference between giving up and moving on. I, I gave up one time because when I was, when I got injured from playing with the Boston Celtics, I still had a one year left.

I was like, you know what, I don't want to feel like robbing the people. Like people couldn't see me play. They don't want to see Shaq average 9 10 points. I gave up. I quit. So I'm going to do something else. But me, I listened to parents always said, Hey man, you better have something to fall back on. I knew my career was going to end with a career

in

Shaquille O'Neal: the industry.

I knew it. But my parents prepared me for it. Hey, what if you blow your knee? What if you blow your Achilles? What if this? What if that? So when I blew my Achilles, I had one year. I could have came back and been at the [00:54:00] farewell shack 12 months. Nope. I would never rob the people. I quit. I gave up. I'm going to do something else.

And then I got, I was going to take a year off and just travel and just get super sexy and party for a year and then come back and do some things and got the call from TNT, so, but to all the people out there, first you have to have the belief. Once you say it to yourself many times no matter what trials and tribulations you go through, you will overcome it.

We all have similar problems. I know that because I have a higher network. Fool you like I don't have problems. We're all human, we have certain problems. But the way I get through my problems is I figure out the solution. I never focus on the problem. I identify the problem, say it one time and I'll focus on the solution.

Shaq. I want, I want say thank you so much. It's a great way to wrap it up there. You are a people person. You're a man of the people and you've got an incredible story that hopefully inspires a lot. I've had a bunch of fun watching you, but also talking to you now. [00:55:00] And, uh, and look forward to seeing that continue on.

Paddy Steinfort: Thanks for sharing your time with us today.