What I Learned About Pressure and Toughness from WNBA Legend Chasity Melvin

When your eyeball is literally dislocated during a game… most people would quit.

Chasity Melvin didn’t.

Not only that – she overcame personal loss, career turmoil, and rejection to become a WNBA legend, coach, and advocate for the mental game behind elite performance.

This conversation with Chasity isn’t just about basketball. It’s about:

• What it takes to win when everything is falling apart
• How to lead in environments where you’re not necessarily welcome
• And why discipline—not motivation—is the real driver of success

If you’re a high performer in business, sports, or leadership, you’ll want to hear this.

 

Connect with Chasity:

💼LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chasitymelvin/

✖️X (Twitter): https://x.com/chasitymelvin

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chasitymelvin/

Follow me for more:

🌐 Website: www.toughness.com

📸 Instagram: @paddysgram

💼 LinkedIn: Paddy Steinfort

✖️ X (Twitter): @paddysx

 

 

 

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Chasity Melvin: I just separated life off the court from on the court. I do think toughness starts with being a visionary, and at first, you have to have a goal. You have to have a vision for what you want for your life, and that's than anything. It takes a lot of sacrifice. It takes a lot of confidence, it takes a lot of perseverance. It takes the discipline that they know to the things that will make you less than your best. 

[00:00:27] Paddy Steinfort: Welcome to the Toughness Podcast. My name's Paddy Steinford, your host, and we have a special guest today who represents a huge area of growth in sports, but also in in the national psyche in the United States. A former WNBA player played 12 years across multiple teams in the WNBA also four four-year player at NC State, and now in their Hall of Fame, as I understand it. And now as an assistant coach at the Phoenix Mercury. Welcome to the show, Chasity Melvin. 

[00:00:56] Chasity Melvin: Thank you. Thanks for having me. 

[00:00:57] Paddy Steinfort: It's great to have you on, and I'm curious to start from the start, not right from the start, but perhaps your childhood or your teenage years back then, and I'm not trying to say how long ago it was, but back then it was like it was probably not something you could dream of having a 30 year career in pro sports as a female.

So how does it happen that you grow up as a kid? The dream grows in you to be a professional athlete when it wasn't that much of a then, 

[00:01:26] Chasity Melvin: well, for me, I was in a family of, so I was raised with all. I guess what people call now life coaching, creating a vision, speaking things into existence. I mean, all of that was kind of derived from the Bible.

You know, make, write the vision, make it plain. So that's how I was raised. My father raised me that way, so I actually, the first time I picked up a basketball and I started playing, I. Immediately fell in love with it and I started writing that down as my goal. Like I was gonna go to college and I was gonna play pro.

It is very weird coming up. During that time, I watched the NBA with my dad and my brothers. There were no women leagues around to watch, but I don't know, I just stuck with it. And my dad was always like supporting us and believing in us, so he didn't discredit it. 

[00:02:12] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, that's cool. I'm remembering, as you described that my own backyard battles with my younger sister, who also had a eyes on being a professional athlete.

But for her, it moved on to different things, and we used to talk about, I. NBA and whether she could play in the NBA. Right and right. Did you watch the NBA with that in mind? Were you thinking you were gonna play against those guys, or what was the dream? 

I never dreamt that I would play in the NBA. I just always had a feeling that they would have a women's professional league by the time I grew up.

So I was 11 at the time and I just kept tell, you know, like they will when I finally get to that point, I just never let go of that dream. Maybe. 'cause I was from a small town and I.

I don't know if you, not trying to have compare myself to big time celebrities, but if you ever talk, talk to them and hear their stories. They had a knack for believing in something they really couldn't see and just kind of listen to it. Right. And so that was my thing, you know, I just, it was always in the back of my mind.

It was, I laid at up at night dreaming about it. So it was just my thing. 

This is a question we ask all the guests. I'm gonna jump straight to it for you, 'cause you've touched on one of the semi-common answers there. And the question is what, how do you define toughness? So you've had a career across, obviously a super successful, one of the greatest of all time in your college career, decade plus in the WNBA.

You're now coaching at the highest level. You've seen a lot, and I'm curious if that's what you would describe as toughness in the ability to see something that doesn't exist yet, is that, and hang onto it or persist even though there's no reason why that should come to be. Or is it something else to you?

[00:03:48] Chasity Melvin: No, I do think toughness starts with being a visionary, because at first you have to have a goal. You have to have a vision for what you want for your life, and that's than anything. But obviously there's different traits to, and that's where toughness comes in to achieving that vision. And it takes a lot of sacrifice.

It takes a lot of confidence, it takes a lot of perseverance. It takes being adaptable, being flexible. And it, it takes the discipline to do the things you don't wanna do in order to have what you want. It takes the discipline to say no to the things that will make you less than your best. So that's what toughness is to me.

But in to be tough, you have to be, have a sense of mental toughness, physical toughness to reach that vision. 

[00:04:28] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. You mentioned physical toughness there, which is a great jumping off point into this. Story, which for our listeners, any of our listeners who follow the WNBA or women's basketball, you've probably heard this story.

If you haven't, then I'm gonna put a little warning here. You might get squeamish as we relate this tale. Chasity, you had a horrendous injury during your career that would probably sit most people down for the rest of their lives. They may not get involved in any physical contact. You not only recovered from the injury return playing, it's something that you've spoken about a little bit before, but can you talk us through that injury?

I'm not even gonna spoil it with a leader, but can you describe just that day, going into that game, what happened to you and how that has built your toughness potentially moving forward? Or whether I just reviewed what was already there. 

[00:05:19] Chasity Melvin: It was just a really freaky accident actually. I was playing for the Chicago Sky.

And as most often guards try to come steal the ball from the post players. And I was actually on the block and I was going into my move, my offensive move, and the guard was coming around trying to steal it, but instead of intercepting the pass, she stuck her finger, her fingers went in my eye and dislocated my eyeball.

Yeah. 

[00:05:45] Paddy Steinfort: Oof. So I even know the story, but even as you describe it there, I'm like squirming for people who can't see. I'm squirming on the screen. I'm like closing my eyes. 'cause even just the thought of having someone's up, being anyone who's been poked in the eye playing a sport, it is not fun, but it's next level.

They dislocated your eyeball out of the sucker. 

[00:06:04] Chasity Melvin: Yeah. So the way the doctor explained it to me is that it was just like dislocating your finger because. She pushed it. So basically it's, you burst all the muscles and they're just stretched to a certain extent, but obviously you can't lose your eye. Like it's not gonna understand, but it's just like, just located as far as it can go, because the muscles are still hanging on, but they're just all stretched.So basically dislocated. 

[00:06:27] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. And so what's your awareness at that moment? That you clearly something's wrong, you'd be poked in the eye, you, you're probably grabbing it. Are you aware that this is not a normal pok in the eye? Are you feeling the holy shit? There might be some real damage to you? 

[00:06:42] Chasity Melvin: Oh yeah. For me, definitely. I was very blessed. I didn't have a lot of injuries planned, so my teammates, the game didn't even stop. 'cause I rarely fall. If I get hurt, I twist my ankle or whatever. I keep playing most, you know, I was from the old school generation, so it had to be something serious as I went down. So they kept playing and then my teammate [00:07:00] recognized I didn't get back and they saw me laying on the floor because it was basically like a box that I basically blacked out.

And so then they rushed back to me because you couldn't see it. Like the ref didn't call a foul. You didn't, he didn't. It was just like a freaky play. 

[00:07:13] Paddy Steinfort: You didn't even get a foul.

[00:07:16] Chasity Melvin: I didn't even, the play was nonstop. Yeah. 

[00:07:18] Paddy Steinfort: Oh, I didn't even get a fo smokes. Wow. And so then, and then you're out of the rest of the game, I assume, and so the doctor assesses.

Tells you what's going on with your eye. That's a pretty shocking thing to hear about something that's happened to you that could, and it's not just the, oh, I broke my bone, I'll come back. This is something that could affect you for the rest of your life at that moment. You can't have a choice, and it may not be a conscious choice while you're a professional athlete 'cause you're always might soldier on.

But there's a significant like tipping point there of do I go and do this again? How far into your career are you at this point? 

[00:07:51] Chasity Melvin: That was my ninth year, I think. Ninth or eight year. 

[00:07:56] Paddy Steinfort: How much extra. I read a saying, sorry. There was a quote the other day around the stuff that Simone Biles is dealing with that it's actually a traditional Eastern philosophy teaching, but it goes something like this.

Sometimes the biggest struggle we have is resisting the struggle that we currently have. That's actually the layers of pain that we can put on ourselves. Obviously physical injury, but then starting to consider what this means and why me, and how long and what else it's gonna do to me. I assume that started a lot of noise in your [00:08:30] head after that of, wow, this is like not your average injury.

Is that the case? Or were you, are you a blessed person who's able to just buckle down and go back at it? 

[00:08:41] Chasity Melvin: I actually, I was just praying that I didn't have to have surgery. So for me, it was such a freaky accident. They had that call in a eye surgeon and all that. So they gave me like a steroid to help with the swelling because by the time I got to the hospital, my eye had just swollen, just shut completely.

And on the way to the hospital and just sitting there, I could feel the muscles contracting and then my eye just shut completely. So that was, I, I just, I have such a strong faith. It was just like, okay guys, I just don't want to not be able to finish my career. I wasn't even thinking about, I. Years from now, or not being able to have vision in this site or, okay.

Contact. Okay. I got I eye. I was just thinking of what could I control? I didn't want to end my career on a freak accident, you know, that that was just my prayer. It was just like, I just wanna be able to play again. And so for me, fortunately at night, everyone was praying and it was just a lot of good energy, a lot of positive vibes.

And I ended up, I didn't have to have the surgery, so I, I was on a steroid for two weeks. I couldn't play. I couldn't, it was crazy though, because it's like one of those injuries, so they treat it that way, like you can't. Basically exercise, move, you don't even wanna sneeze. 'cause then that puts more pressure around that area.

So that was humbling. But once I finished the two weeks, um, my eye was still slightly shut, but I didn't have to have surgery. So it took about four weeks to actually fully recover from it. 

[00:10:06] Paddy Steinfort: Wow, that's incredible. It took four weeks. So you, when you consider what happened, it sounds like something right.

Take much longer than that. You looking at that part of your career, let's say, let's separate the playing into the coaching side of things. So in the playing side, that's a significant incident, right? But are there other things that you look back at college all pros where you're like, that actually shaped me.

That's where I learned part of. What I see as toughness. You gave that definition earlier that part of it is vision, but there's also the discipline and the work ethic and all that. Are there other parts of your career that you credit with? I wasn't tough until that happened. Or is it, I was born tough. I was raised tough and these things just revealed it.

I think, I mean there's tons of things. High school, just the having the fortitude to come out of a small town. I was just from very humble beginnings. So there was 

[00:10:56] Paddy Steinfort: small town. What? Tell us, yeah. 

[00:11:00] Chasity Melvin: Yeah, shout out to Roseboro, North Carolina population, maybe. Yeah. Population less than maybe 1200 people. There were 90 people in my senior class graduating class of high school.

Everybody knew each other, so for me, just the toughness to have the fortitude to. One go outside of my comfort zone. That happens with a lot of rural kids, a lot of small-town kids. They're very family-oriented. No one goes outside that radius. So I was pretty tough to have a vision to like, I'm gonna play basketball.

I had to travel with people I didn't know because my parents really couldn't afford it. So basketball was always making me, taking me to uncomfortable situations and very new surroundings. So for high school, I just had to be tough in that sense. And then once I got college, it was the same thing. It was like.

I was a tiny fish of my sharks saying, well, and everything going through, I went from 90 people graduating my senior class to a big university with 300 people sitting in a classroom and on top of that, playing a sport. So that that made me tough too. So I had to learn how to adapt, be flexible, especially discipline, being the first time away from my family in my home.

And then I went on to the WNBA and the pros. I graduated from college. Tough as an athlete to actually do that in four years without any hiccups or just setbacks. And I had a fabulous career. Went to the Final Four my senior year. I get drafted, I reach my dream. I go into the first professional women's league.

That was called the ABL, but it folded three months later. So here I am, I'm 2021. I've achieved my dream. I'm telling everybody I'm playing pro. Everyone's hype, and then the league just shuts down right before Christmas, my favorite holiday. 

[00:12:46] Paddy Steinfort: Wow. So this is great. I didn't see this one coming. You've gone from, and it wasn't just like you rushed over your college career there. You turn up, you set a small fish with sharks. I assume you were recruited to some degree, like you turn out to be a pretty handy player. So you go in there, you have one of the greatest college careers of all time. Definitely at NC State, you're you, which ends up with you in the Hall of Fame. So you're a superstar at this school.Then you get drafted in the first round. 11th league? I think so. So well 

[00:13:13] Chasity Melvin: no. So I got drafted to the first professional league and a lot of people, the WNBA has taken over so they don't know that there was an A BL. Okay. A BL was the first professional league it was going on. And then the WNBA started two years later.

[00:13:26] Paddy Steinfort: So two years. Was this like purgatory, like what happened to fill that time? This is not on your, on the bio that I was fed. I know what happened in next two years. 

[00:13:35] Chasity Melvin: I was a senior in college and they had already had a successful season. And so when I graduated, I was, uh, the WNBA had just started that previous year, and so I had a choice of either entering my name into the ABL draft or the WNBA draft, and I chose the ABL and everyone had a fit.

But for me, the ABL had all the players that. I followed and they played year round. And so for me, they had the best basketball players at the time. Don Staley was playing in a BL, Theresa Edward, like all the greats. And Donovan was coaching. So I knew my history and so that's where I wanted to be. And they were the first, they were the ones that said, Hey, we're gonna try to have a professional women's team.

So I'm, I was loyal to that whole philosophy. Hey, they really cared about us. And then it's like the WNBA came and was like. NBA was like, oh no, we're the powerhouse. Oh, look what they're doing. We can make money there too. So for me, I got drafted and then it folded. So it folded three months later. 

[00:14:34] Paddy Steinfort: All right. And so you had to sit for two weeks. For two years, sir. What? What'd you do to fill that time? 

[00:14:39] Chasity Melvin: I had to sit for a year. I had to sit for a year, and that was probably the men most mentally tough thing I had been through to that point. That was the hardest thing that I probably ever had to go through, just mentally, because you achieve your dream and then you lose it.

On top of that, you just don't know where. The way everything ended, like we were practicing with our team and then they just shut everything down. There was no meeting, there was no, it was just, they told the COVID that 

[00:15:06] Paddy Steinfort: stop and the uncertainty of what's coming next. It seems like you went through the COVID shutdown before everyone went through the COVID shutdown. You did it 20 years ago. 

[00:15:13] Chasity Melvin: I did it 20 years ago. I had everything just shut down and it's just such a painful. Feeling and then I was such a young person to have to deal with that with. And then people just asking questions. So unfortunately for me, I had a great support system with my family during that time.

Another rookie that had played with me actually ended up committing suicide after that happened. And so I was mentally all over the place, but I ended up getting an agent and I went to Spain about two months after Christmas, or a month and a half after Christmas. I got a job in Spain, and again, I'm traveling out of the world, you know, not, uh, out of the United States, you know, like I'm from a small town and I'm actually going to Spain by myself.

With all of that happening, then I had to get on a flight, 12-hour flight to Spain, to a city. Obviously, I had never been to Spain. It was just, that was a mentally taxing year to have. Yeah, no doubt. Another, and the rookie that had committed suicide and then I wasn't able to be there, and then I learned so much through therapy about like how suicide really affects someone.

Up until that point, it was very taboo in my culture and where I was from. Like people just didn't commit suicide. Yeah. That was something. Taboo or something that happened somewhere else. So when that really became [00:16:30] close to me, it was just a lot. So that just built my mental toughness. I just felt like after that year I could basically get to do anything.

[00:16:39] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. Yeah. It's like part of that, one of the coaches that I've been working with in lead up to these Olympics. Emphasizing, particularly because of the COVID uncertainty and gonna Tokyo amidst all that, and even just an Olympics by itself. Everything's very unpredictable and he has been banging on about this quote from Charles Darwin.

It's, I'm gonna paraphrase the exact words, but it's something along the lines of. In the end, the winner isn't the strongest, the fastest one who can last the longest. It's the he who's the most flexible and adaptable. And that's he or she. That's Charles Darwin. Talking way back when everyone just said he, but the, you've described that there, your ability to adapt to a situation when it's uncertain.

People who don't adapt, don't progress, and sometimes don't even survive, and you were able to get through that. You mentioned therapy, was that something that you did at the time or that something that you did further down to try and deal with? What was the residue of that time for you? How, where did that come from?

[00:17:38] Chasity Melvin: Well, I got drafted by the WNBA and I have to give credit to the NBA and theWNBA. I'm firmly, I do believe that they were aware that the players transitioning from the A BL to the NBA, they recognized that transition was difficult. Um, so they had just a team of. Once we got drafted, if we wanted to talk to someone.

And so I chose to talk with someone about my, my, my past teammate that had committed suicide. And she gave me tools to help me get through that. And so I was so happy I did that. And for me, like my family, no one ever taught about therapy, but the way that they presented it to us and to the draftees, it's like, Hey, these are tools to help you get through stuff.

And for me, I hadn't had anyone close to me die. Like my grand, my grandmothers and everyone was still alive, like from a small town. So I didn't have like, you know, a mom die or dad, anybody close to me, like where I experienced had to even really experience death. So I was very fortunate in that situation.

They had talked about deaths in your family and that kind of stuff, and so that what, that's what kind of I. Drew me in. Like I do have an issue. Like I, it wasn't mental illness. Like I wasn't feeling like I was going to talk to a psychologist because I had a mental disorder. It was just like, yeah, my best friend committed suicide, and I was blaming myself because I said like, what could I have done?

If I should, could I have called her? Did I need to call her more? Like we played phone tags sometimes, and I'm like, what if I would've. I kept trying to call back. The therapist gave me tools and taught me like, this is what everyone feels when someone commits suicide. And that's why it's so detrimental to families, because people start blaming themselves.

So once that's why I was, therapy really helped me with that situation. 

[00:19:17] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. Do you, did you, so you mentioned therapy definitely helped you with that situation and it is really props to the WNBA for, for providing those services, for reading the tea leaves, so to speak. Do you think that it had any impact on your performance from there or they were pretty separate worlds for you?

It helped you settle down your guilt and move on from the trauma of your friend dying suicide. But it did that drip feed into how you performed? Did it give you tools that helped join the court? 

[00:19:44] Chasity Melvin: No, for me, and that's what I'm trying to learn more about now. I'm glad you mentioned that as a coach for me, and I can't say for all players, but I just separated life off the court from on the court.

And for me, basketball is my getaway from like real life. I don't know that if a lot of young athletes do that now. Mm-hmm. I don't know if they can separate the two. So I don't really feel like I ever needed therapy. Not to say that I didn't have things going on in my life, but it's just like I was looking forward to those two-hour practices or three-hour practices, whether my boyfriend broke up with me or somebody hurt my feelings or family problems or whatever.

That was my escape. So I never really needed therapy to help me not deal with off-course stuff. So for me, no, nothing ever bothered me on the court and that that's what drew me to the court. That's what drew me to basketball. That's what. Made me feel free. Like entertainers when we're, when they're on, they had in their, during their concert, like that two hours is, 

[00:20:40] Paddy Steinfort: that's when you're alive and you're in control.Then it was good. That's, 

[00:20:44] Chasity Melvin: yeah, everything is good. So that's how I treated my sport and I can't say that for all athletes, but that was what basketball did for me. 

[00:20:52] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. So both the role of this comes up often in these sort of conversations, particularly with elite level performers, is the role of coaches or mentors, or in some cases, therapists, counselors is a really key one often in shaping people both off and on their field of play. And so you've mentioned one there who helped you with a significant issue. How about any others that you look at along the way where you're like, okay, that that support whether it was provided formally by the league WNBA, perhaps for putting a therapist in there and providing the support that was needed at the time.] But are there other helpers along your journey that you look at and that you actually consider? Do you think some of those people, without knowing it at the time, have shaped you towards being a coach yourself? You are effectively one of those people now,

[00:21:42] Chasity Melvin: I just believe coming in the league with a lot of the older, I don't wanna say older, but like the vets of the league and the women that pioneered their way when basketball wasn't cool for women. Our United States was pretty much against women playing sports.

So I had a lot of veteran women mentors that were coaches, that were players. Like when I went in the league, the players were like, we gotta build this league. So there was a foundation. There for me, there was a foundation for me to do my best and for, they were great role models, and the coaches were great role models.

This is what we're trying to build. And so I came from that era. So there, I mean, there are too many people to name, but it was just, this is what we're doing and this is what we're trying to build. And so you were a part of that. You were a part of that, and you learned their stories and then. Understand the history of I'm complaining about something you, we didn't have this.

The progress of women's basketball, then you appreciate it and you try to do your part to, to make it even better. So there, there were countless people, countless people that I could say really helped and mentored me and obviously my college coach, rest in peace. Coach Kay was obviously extremely in instrumental in one of the big pioneers of women's basketball in North Carolina.

And so a lot of what I did, I wanted to make her proud, not only myself and my family, but. Just all the sacrifices that I know she put into it is like you have that in the back of your head. So yeah. I kind to say she's like my basketball parent. You don't wanna let your parents now? Then I didn't wanna let my basketball parents, 

[00:23:18] Paddy Steinfort: I forgot I left out the parents there. That's the other group of guide and leaders alongside coaches and other mentors, so to speak. And you mentioned a couple of things there that I think are underappreciated when we talk about support services. Or coaches or anyone who's helping us along our path. Even if it is just a friend, I refer to it as the three P's.

So sometimes we think of a coach as their job is to provide us a path. Here's the way to do this, right? Here's the how. Here's what to do right now and not, while that is one P, there are two very important, perhaps sometimes even more important ones, which is you've mentioned the purpose as we've gotta build this league.

So even when we don't know how, but let's just find a way, right? Let's they help you stick to it. And the other part was perspective. Hey, you're complaining about the shitty three star hotel room we're in. We had to pay for our own one star, fully bitten motel room on the side of the road to get this thing going.

And that helps. Put thing, helps you stay in the moment instead of getting caught on. Technically irrelevant detail. So I just wanted to really highlight that there. And let me ask, play off that a little bit. In your role as a coach now, how much time or attention do you pay to each of those three? There's obviously a lot of time when we're preparing for games, playing games, reviewing games at practice, it's a lot about the, how are we gonna win this game?

How am I gonna help you get better? All these technical, tactical stuff, right? Sometimes physical, right? But there's also elements of your coaching that are about. Here's why we're trying to do this, and yo lemme give you a reality check. Like you might think you're in deep shit right now, but I have my eyes eyeball, poked out of it, sock at one time, so suck it up.

How much do you feel like, what's the balance for you in your role as a coach? 

[00:24:58] Chasity Melvin: Uh, I think I have a overall good balance. I always will be a visionary. I always, there's the strong foundation, the principles that. I still believe on, I know everyone says there's the old school and the new school, and I believe that I've successfully intertwined both.

I don't think there's, I mean, there's not, there isn't a new school without the old school, and it's just like the old school is the foundation. There are just some find foundational principles that can't change when it comes to sports. That's how I feel for you. 

[00:25:25] Paddy Steinfort: What are those for the old school foundational principles?

[00:25:29] Chasity Melvin: Just the simple work ethic. Just work ethic. Accountability. Accountability is really big at first. Accountability goes before work ethic because you can't hold your players accountable. It's just gonna be a mess. You don't need a coach, pretty much, you know? So then you're, you're changing the hierarchy of, okay, every sport, just go out there and play.

You don't need to coach. So accountability, work ethic. Probably the third thing would just be the culture, developing a strong culture. And that has to go with the foundation too, but just having a strong culture, being holding players and athletes accountable. And then the work ethic, like, how are we gonna work?

So those are just three things that come to mind. Obviously that just don't change, you know, they don't change. I think what people should start saying with the new school is, I think there are ways to communicate. A little bit different than when  I think that's across the board because parents now are being more communicative with their kids.

My parents, what they say went. And that's how it was once you went to practice, whatever the coach said, you never ask why. Well, why do we have to, you know? You know? And so I think that's more the new school. And so I think I came in to the beginning of that. So I got, I wasn't just strictly old school because I was able to get into a new philosophy with coaches and being able to talk to your coach and communicate.

And so for me, I think I have a great balance with that, but I'll never leave some of the old school tricks off. Like it's just part of foundation sport. And especially young athletes, they still need it. I think because people have tried to go, and this is my personal opinion, I think because people have tried to go so far away from the old school philosophy that now kids are really young athletes especially are really struggling mentally.

I will say one thing about our old school coaches, like they, we were mentally tough off the court, which off the court has a lot to do with your family and they gotta raise you, your coach. But as far as being on the court, on the field, those coaches did a great job of helping you become mentally tough and teaching you about perseverance and how you have to make sacrifices. And so I think that's somewhat missing today because there's a thin line of being aware of their mental health and drawing that line between mental health and mental toughness on the court.

[00:27:54] Paddy Steinfort: How do you balance that? 'cause that's really interesting. I was asked to write an op-ed on that exact topic, particularly with what's happened at the Olympics and with Naomi the previous months. How do you as a coach and particularly sensitive as a coach who also went through some things as a player dichotomy of it can be really tough and I still have to perform.

How do you go about handling that? Or are you still learning how to handle that? 

[00:28:17] Chasity Melvin: I'm still learning. I'm trying to listen to podcasts. I love reading, so I am actually looking for a book that will gimme the tools that change my language. 'cause I think everything is how you communicate and like I said, back in the day, coaches could say and do whatever and as an athlete.

We didn't take it personal, we took it as a coach's. Gotta be hard. And now today, like players don't look at it like that players automatically look at, they take everything personal, which is a little bit different. So for me, I just want to be able to be open-minded when players are going through things and allow myself to get to know them as people off the court, which our coaches did as well.

They were super supportive off the court. Back in the day, but on the court there was just the standard. These two hours are mine and we, and I totally get it and I wish it was still more like that today, but now it's just encompassing everything. You might have to really understand if you need to let this player like not be on the court today, and you have to open your little box and your mind, and I'm not, I won't say for me, and I know a lot of coaches who don't even want to coach anymore because they find that.

Very challenging. And I'm not gonna say it's easy for me either, because I know that I wouldn't have been as great as I am without some of those things that I learned. And so you want to teach others what it takes to be the best and to stay. And then now you gotta just add something to it to get creative, to get it across.

[00:29:47] Paddy Steinfort: How's the difference the shift from coaching men to women? Is it, is there much difference or are they just humans and they're, the buttons are still the same, 

[00:29:57] Chasity Melvin: the buttons are all still the same. I will say the guys are a little bit easier to challenge because men initially, and I've learned this from women who work corporate, they just feel like they can do it all.

Oh, you mean me to do that? Yeah, I got it. Well, they could have no clue, but they'll never let you know. Females are the same way across the board. Like they want to have their i's dotted and their T's crossed. Before they give, before they go give you, yeah, before they go, guys don't have any of that, and they'll just off the whim and you know, just figure it out later.

So for me, that was the same thing. I could challenge them with any move they're gonna work on and try to do it. Yeah. I feel like female athletes have to be a little bit more confident in their skillset. They're well aware. They're not gonna go down and do a 360 doc. Even if guys can't do that, they're gonna try.

[00:30:54] Paddy Steinfort: Maybe you're a little better than you are at that point. Yes. And there's so much possibility. But the reason I was asking that question more about the whole duration of your coaching career is I'm curious about how much you look at the coach's ability. Let me say it a different way, by sharing a story.

There's a player who I worked with in the NBA who initially, because I was new to the NBA and I wanted to make sure I didn't screw it up. Also partly because of the way everyone else treated this individual, it seemed apparent that like you had to be really careful. You had to like, you gotta be nice and make sure you ask him and get into the right space, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, I spent more than a couple of seasons, sorry, more than the first season with him, and eventually I was in a place of trust enough I could say to him, Hey, what's going on with you and that coach? Well, why are you not responding there? I know you well enough to know that there's something weird there.

He's like, I just wanna be coached. I don't wanna be friends. I don't want you, I don't wanna like you. You don't have to like me. I just want you to keep me accountable and drive me. And I was like, holy shit. Everyone's treating this guy the wrong way because all him wants is actually what you've described as the old school there.

Like they actually want that, but everyone feels like we have to go the nice way about it. Right. How much of your experience as a coach have you seen that where you actually tap into eventually? Oh shit. They actually wanna be pushed like. They don't want us to treat 'em with kid gloves. That's how everyone treats them and they're kind of sick of it.

[00:32:20] Chasity Melvin: I just realized that, I think that's the cool thing of being a former player and coaching that's never been outside of my wheel scape or my wheelhouse because I know that's what I needed to become the best. And I know coaching in the pros. Or they want, they may not wanna be the best, but they want that next contract.

There's ways to do that. And that's why I always knew. Yeah. I mean they might, and that's why coaches are like, yo, they might curse you out, or they might, we're not friends. I don't need the players to like me. I do. I do feel though, like especially the pros, I want the players to know that I care about them.

Mm-hmm. And I will say that about old school coaches. I never felt like old school coaches didn't care about us as people. I just felt like during the practice time, that was it. And then back in the day, parents were. If not the world has changed so much and evolved so much. You don't have, moms are out working and pe, everyone's working and kids don't really have that family environment that a lot of us had when we were younger.

So it was just like our parents send us to the coach. Listen to the coach. So he had, he or she had that freedom to just coach. Now parents are working and the coach is like taking all a little, a lot. And 

[00:33:33] Paddy Steinfort: I don't know if this is, I dunno if it's gotten to this level yet in the WNBA, but the amount of.

Players who have their own entourage and their own skills coach and their agent wants to be involved and Oh wow. Yeah, 

[00:33:44] Chasity Melvin: it's just too much. Hasn't been an head coach. Yeah, it's a lot. And so I think that's something that I think about daily and I question myself, am I prepared for this? But I feel like all of my experience throughout my professional career obviously have helped me.

And obviously I went through all that to become. It's gonna help me become the coach that hopefully I become and evolve into one day. Yeah. So I just draw off those experiences. 

[00:34:10] Paddy Steinfort: Very cool. There's a great reference point of that perspective as well, right? Knowing that everything we've been through got us to where we are now and hopefully to where you want to go.

And speaking of that, as we start to wrap up the show, what is your hope for not just your career, like what are you trying to achieve, obviously, but second, secondly to that, as you've described, the evolution of the women's game. The professional level that you've been a part of growing and now stewarding as a assistant coach, what do you hope that actually achieves not only for future basketball players, future female basketball players, but potentially the impact on society that you've, we've seen in some of the social justice stuff over the last year or two?

Very broad question, but what do you see as the future? As a vision. 

[00:34:54] Chasity Melvin: my vision for the WNBA is to become the NBA. Basically, they have the blueprint and hopefully I'll be allowed to see it, see that come to fruition. But I do think that women's basketball is great. It's been great. A lot of people say our, A lot of people don't know the history of our game.

They don't know how the old school players played, but it is very similar to the NBA guys. There were really great women's basketball players, but just no one knows about 'em. And so for me to see the evolution of the WNBA become a really household name, not just as an organization, but as individual teams, that's my big vision for them and to hopefully be a part of an MBA head coach or GM and or even own a team one day in the WNBA and also like just obviously outside.

The evolution for that is just to incorporate having more women head coaches as the league expands and as we get more teams, because it provides more opportunities for women to coach because for some reason women can't coach men. So we have a. Small tunnel for women to coach on the pro level or even in college.

And so we have a lot of women competing with each other for a very small amount of opportunity because we hadn't crossed over into coaching men in college or even on the recreation level, like men have the opportunity to coach on either side. And I just wanna make this point because I feel like sometimes men are intimidated of women coming into the NBA or women trying to coach men.

And like when I coached in the G League, it. Was another, I would say opportunity to build my toughness. Kinda like you. That's a nice way of word, 

[00:36:35] Paddy Steinfort: Actually, I'm gonna make more time for that 'cause I wanna ask that. Like how is it stepping into a field where people, it's the new age exclusion, right? Where you ain't welcome here.

Like this isn't for you, which is ridiculous. I had the privilege of being around when Lindsay Harding came through to 76ers while I was there. Okay. She's only there for a brief window. 'cause then I think Portland took her on full time. 

[00:36:55] Chasity Melvin: Sacramento. Yeah. But 

[00:36:56] Paddy Steinfort: But you could see that she could coach her ass off partly 'cause she played so long and she was a good player, but she had no fear.

Talking to the players was a little startling to them, but she knew what she was talking about. She could get at it and it was clear that she, she has the ability. Potentially more so than some of the male coaches who were in the building, but I also observed some of the resistance that she experiences, and so I'm curious for you to talk to that.

How did you experience that in the G League and potentially with your future career of like maybe you could coach in the NBA? Why not? How does that, as you said so delicately. It gave you a chance to reveal your toughness. What's the toughest part of that for you? 

[00:37:34] Chasity Melvin: I think you were like, I was a little bit like you.

When you say you got into the NBAI, you didn't wanna mess up. You wanted to show others their respect because this is the highest level. So for me, that was definitely the highest level for me, higher than the WNBA. So I was the same way. I wanted to soak up. Like, what am I getting into? And also not mess up, not say anything stupid.

And I received a quote before I went to coach in the G League and it was from a really well-known, very good top NBA head coach, and he told me that I lacked on-court presence. He told me I didn't have the attitude to be able to work in this alpha. Environment. He told me that there was something else.

He said that I just didn't have a voice and he just didn't see me as a candidate to coach in the league. 

[00:38:19] Paddy Steinfort: And that turned quick. I thought you were gonna tell me some inspirational story about this. Coach wanted to support me. He's basically ripped shreds, but secondly pieces. 

[00:38:32] Chasity Melvin: And I, first of all, I called my mom and my dad and I sent them what he had.

And your parent? Well, I had great parents, so they were like, you can do it. And so as a part of my mental toughness, I took it like I took everything of like always being counted out. And so I turned everything into constructive criticism and then I took what I didn't like and I just said, Hey, that's his opinion.

And you're right, I'm not a alpha, but my coaching style is my coaching style and I'm never gonna be that, but. I knew I could be effective in the NBA and in the G League and with the guide. And so once I got the opportunity and I was able to give them my knowledge and work with the staff and actually be on the sidelines and be in practice, it all changed.

And for me was a lot of people would've quit when they got that text. It was terrible. I'm not gonna say that was something easy to handle and to bounce back for back from. Because I'm already nervous about coaching. God. Yeah. And then it was just, and this was like my second opportunity coaching outside of high school, so it wasn't like if he would've said that, and I had coached in the WNBA for three or four years, or even in college for four years, and he told me that, then I would've been like WNBA isn't for me. I probably would've went back to college or the WNBA, but I hadn't even had an opportunity. So maybe some of that stuff is true. Maybe his perspective was true. But that was my initial like outing. That was the first I had competed coaching in the, at the draft combine and the G League tryouts and G League all stars.

So that was my first time ever actually on the court. So it was back to being a, a fish among sharks and whale. 

[00:40:21] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, absolutely. Big sharks to shot the teeth. 

[00:40:25] Chasity Melvin: Yeah. Big ones. You, you've been there. Even guys feel that way if that would've been their first opportunity. So me as a female is just guys like. So just to be able to bounce back from that is just, it's again, like I just know every experience is building me for where I will eventually end up.

And I love coaching the guys. I love coaching the G League. I would love the opportunity to coach in the NBA, but I'm definitely committed to the WNBA and becoming a head coach. But I would, I definitely enjoy being an assistant in the G League and I would welcome that opportunity again. 

[00:40:56] Paddy Steinfort: Let me ask you this question to finish off on.

I had a mentor myself in, when I started my coaching career, was then senior assistant on the team with me, and unfortunately, he passed away due to cancer in the start of our second season. It was pretty full on for all of us. He being the guy that he was actually was open to spending time with me, sitting by his bedside as he received treatment, talking to me about coaching and what it meant.

: And one of the analogies he used was that coaching is like being a coach is like being a coffee cup because we were drinking coffee while we're doing it. He said the purpose of the cup. It's not to hold onto what's inside it, it's to pour itself into something bigger. And that was his analogy for coaching.

And it's really informed how I go about things in my coaching. And I'm curious if you have a view as to like when you are working with the women you work with today at the WNBA and potentially moving forward, like your time in the G League, but potentially in the NBA as a coach, what is it that you hope to pour into the people that you are?

For growing and building into obviously fine athletes, but also fine young adults. What do you hope to leave behind as part of your, as a coach? 

[00:42:08] Chasity Melvin: Just total overall, leave them with a passion for the game. I think too often with professional athletes, when we saw this with Simone, maybe like when she said It's not fun anymore.

For me, professional basketball was not. It was fun for me and I worked hard and I think for me, I just wanna leave that legacy you, you chose this sport for a reason and there are multiple reasons, but I think even when sometimes players say, people say, oh, they just play for the money or whatever, I'm like, you still like it a little.

You have to have some type of passion to go through all you do as a professional athlete. And so I, for me, when they played under me, I want them to know that they still had a passion and a love for the game. They still got their butts kicked and they worked hard. They still, they left with having a love and a certain type of energy and appreciation for the game.

And that's the type of legacy I wanna leave. Not, I don't know that that's so alpha, but I think it's, I ask what I want to leave, that's my no. 

[00:43:04] Paddy Steinfort: But for me, that's the great passion of yours to have is to give other people passion. 'cause it's so central to being able to push through. Tough times. If you do love something, it's much easier to stick with it than if it's just a thing that you do.

Yeah. And so firstly, wanted to say thank you for joining us here. Thank you for sharing your story. Incredible, the highs and and lows along the way, and still on the up and up as we continue to build a women's game and as you continue to impact so new lives. So thank you so much, Chastity Melvin, and good luck for the next season.

[00:43:33] Chasity Melvin: Thank you. Thanks for having me.