Kliff Kingsbury on Mahomes’ Mentality, Brady’s “Maniacal” Habits, and the #1 Trait of Winners

Coaching in the NFL isn’t just about playbooks—it’s about resilience, leadership, and mental flexibility. Kliff Kingsbury has seen it all, from playing under Bill Belichick to coaching some of the NFL’s biggest stars. 

In this episode, he shares how his father’s military background shaped his mindset, how setbacks fueled his drive, and why toughness is about more than just physical grit.

Kliff opens up about learning from Tom Brady’s relentless work ethic, bouncing back from career lows, and helping “cool, calm” Patrick Mahomes develop into the vocal leader he is today.

Kliff also shares:

• The coaching lessons he learned from Belichick and Pete Carroll
• Stories about recruiting and coaching Patrick Mahomes and other great NFL’ers
• How his 4AM workouts and a Rudyard Kipling poem keep him sharp and committed

Transcript:


[00:00:00] Paddy Steinfort: Welcome to the Toughness Podcast. I'm your host, Paddy Steinfort. Today, we have a guest who I'm lucky enough to call a friend, but I've worked with along the way and has an absolutely incredible journey himself in American football. Welcome to the show. Kliff Kingsbury. Appreciate it, Patty. Good seeing you, man.

Good to see you too, buddy. Thanks for joining us. Um, starting off, we often will talk about childhood and how people move to where they are right now. And we will get to that with you, but. It's, uh, it's worth probably just touching on how our paths crossed initially. We worked together for a few years when you were at, uh, at Texas Tech and, and I know how, how it unfolded from my end, but it's fairly unusual for a college head coach to be that open to, Hey, let's get someone in who does this and, and put them in as part of the program.

What was your thinking there as you, as you moved into it, got to the point where it was like, Hey, let's find someone like Patty.

[00:01:00] Kliff Kingsbury: Yeah, I think just studying our coaches that I really respected and listening to their stories and how they'd implemented that in their programs, whether it was college or the NFL.

And so we asked around and people kept bringing up your names as one of the bright guys in the profession. And so once we got you there and kind of saw how you interact and saw how much the players were responding to you quickly, you kind of endeared yourself to them. It was awesome in those two years.

You know, we had some great, great players that we were lucky enough to come across, and I thought that it was really impactful for our program. You know, the time you were there. 

[00:01:34] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, I, I had an amazing experience there too and you did mention some great players that we'll touch on probably later in the chat.

You, you mentioned there you, uh, looked at coaches you admired and you, you were, as part of your incredible playing and coaching journey, you were actually, uh, your first team as a pro was a little team called the New England Patriots who had a guy called Bill Belichick as the head coach. How much of his coaching rubbed off on you and how you go about things now.

Yeah, 

[00:02:03] Kliff Kingsbury: I think the biggest thing was just his attention to detail and his never leaving any stone unturned. I mean, his teams are prepared for any situation, no matter how far fetched it may sound in August, it usually somehow happens during the season and you're ready for it and you practice it and you've walked it through.

And I think that that was the biggest thing I took from him. Nobody can be Bill. I mean, he's a unique personality. He's a brilliant Football coach. Probably, the only coach in the league that could coach every position and special teams and offense and defense. And he's all-time great and everybody knows that.

But I think When you're around him, you try to take certain things. And to me, that was the preparation each and every week, you know, he didn't let it get old for the players. He made you adhere to it. And obviously the success speaks for itself. 

[00:02:46] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. You talked about attention to detail preparation.

That's it. I observed it firsthand working with you, I remember the first time I walked into your office and I, I described it to someone the next day as it was like a scene out of a beautiful mind. There was just all these play calls like scribbled on the, on a entire wall of whiteboard. And these were, and when I looked at one of them was like from 2003 and it was like from years ago.

So attention to detail is one of your things. And I, uh, assume obviously some of it was from Bill, but was that always a part of? You and did that, was that from growing up or like, how did that come to be one of your characteristics? 

[00:03:22] Kliff Kingsbury: It did. It started with my dad. Um, obviously he was a, uh, Marine and, and fought in Vietnam.

And so we were kind of raised on those principles that, um, with the military. Um, attention detail was one always the early, you know, always finish things. So there's a lot of, a lot of that going on in our household growing up. And my brother and I, uh, were lucky enough to be raised that way. And my brother's a really successful engineer.

Um, I've been lucky enough to have some. Some fun and football. But yeah, that was kind of a cornerstone of how we were raised. 

[00:03:54] Paddy Steinfort: Your dad was a recipient of the Purple Heart. Uh, so he not only was a Vietnam vet, which you mentioned, but he was a pretty handy one at that. What do you know of the story behind why he received that?

And how does that impact you as a kid when you, when you learn of what it took for him to be awarded that medal? 

[00:04:08] Kliff Kingsbury: He didn't like to talk too much about. You know, his time there every now and then he, he, he'd share some things, but he, he would always be like, Hey, if you weren't there, it's hard for for you to understand.

And he didn't want. Even go back to those memories, but I, I know they were in the jungle and somebody hit a trip wire and he got shot in his jaw. Um, and they came under heavy fire and it was like two or three hours before they get the helicopter and get them out of there. So your dad says it's ours. You can barely tell what he says.

The scars to have your dad have gone through something like that. You know, the mental toughness you have to even survive that and, and, um, deal with that circumstances to me. I was always just so impressed by him and you know, he volunteered to go, he didn't get drafted. So he's done things that I questioned if I could ever do.

[00:04:57] Kliff Kingsbury: And, and, um, so then a huge point of pride for me in my life that, that he served our country 

[00:05:01] Paddy Steinfort: and was at an element of that you are able to draw perspective from where like you, you might've had a tough day at the office. Exactly. Well, I weighed down at halftime, I 

[00:05:10] Kliff Kingsbury: Alright, are you, are you have a bruise on the suit?

You better get your ass out there to the sideline. Like, if the bone's not stitched out, or bleeding, find your way to the sideline, son. 

[00:05:18] Paddy Steinfort: Did you, at the time, as you were getting raised, look that right? Some kids would, uh, push back against being told to be on time or attention to detail, et cetera, did we, did you find at a time as a kid that you were like, yeah, I've got to do this.

Or was it, was it still a little, like, was there some rebellion in you?

[00:05:34] Kliff Kingsbury: No, my dad's pretty intense. Wasn't gonna be any rebellion. And my mom was was a educator in high school. Um, very talented lady did a bunch of stuff outside of teaching as well. And so both of them showed us an early age. If you want to have success, like here's kind of some cornerstones to follow.

Uh, we're very lucky to have that. 

[00:05:57] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. like it obviously led to, you've had an incredibly successful life to date. So I'm a young man and a young coach, but the purpose of this show and this series is to talk about some of these characteristics that you said your dad instilled in you and they made you a good football player, a good coach.

I'm curious to know whether, like at what point along that journey, if you look back over, The 40 odd years that you've been on earth, if you go back over those years, like most of the most guests, and even when I'm, you know, it's not a guest, if I'm talking to a player coach, a military operator, whoever it is, someone who's a high performer can point to a, uh, almost a turning point or an actual moment, a game in a band, an interaction with another human where it's like, that was the point where I recognized that there's more to just, being good than just being physically good or having this talent or being in the right place at the right time and that there is an element of mental toughness that that's a separator both in the moment, but also over the long term.

Can you pinpoint something like that along your pathway where you're like, yeah, that was a point where I realized that this is more important than people might give a credit. 

[00:07:02] Kliff Kingsbury: Yeah, I think that being the son of a coach and playing Texas high school football and all these things, I was set up on a pretty good path to be successful with a good high school team.

You know, things went played early in college. So thanks for going pretty smoothly. And I think that I was fortunate enough, you know, get drafted by the Patriots that you talked about. And so witness Tom Brady, who has the great story, probably in the history of sports when you're talking about overcoming things and, um, you know, being a six-round pick, splitting time in college and just watching how he did everything at an elite level, the maniacal approach where it was his entire life was dedicated to you.

Being the greatest quarterback of all time, the food he puts in his puppy, the routine, the recovery, all of it. I think to me, that's when it really hit me like this is the separator here because everybody's pretty good and I thought I was pretty good. I thought I worked hard until I witnessed what, what he put into football on how much it meant to him.

And I think that was a big eye-opener for me. Like this is a different animal here. He, uh, he is 

[00:08:02] Paddy Steinfort: He, uh, yeah he is a different animal. And that's amazing that you got to observe that up close. You kind of skipped a little bit there in the story of. You happen to be a pretty handy college quarterback yourself, literally one of only three people in history to have gone over 10, 000 yards, you broke, not just broke, smashed a bunch of NCAA records, and yet you still look at that and you say, I wasn't as good as I probably thought I was.

Why do you think that you can put up those numbers and then you go, yeah, I'm still like, I wasn't as good as  I thought  I was. 

[00:08:30] Kliff Kingsbury: Yeah, I just, like I said, I think for me, it all came fairly easy. I'm not trying to be conceited when I say that, but I'm saying the path, I guess, got set on. My dad was my head high school football coach, so I was going to camp, so I was doing all these things.

I could throw in an early age, so I had success early. College, I played early. We get a very pass friendly Revolutionary coach in there in Mike Leach. So throwing a ball all over the place. We're having having a lot of success. Got a player of the West Walker who makes you look good no matter where you put it.

And so I think looking back on it, there's more I could have done had I been challenged maybe earlier. Maybe that would have helped, you know, but once you get to the league and that's the eye-opener that sometimes it's tough to You know, restart and figure it out and say, all right, well, we gotta, we gotta adjust and really step our game up here.

And so I was back and said, there's definitely things I could have done, um, and put more into it. And, you know, as I transitioned to coaching that, that's what I learned. That's why I was like, I'm never going to have that again. I'm never going to have that. What if again, or regrets again, I'm going to attack this with everything in my heart and so on.

So it was, it was a tough lesson learned, but looking back, it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. 

[00:09:36] Paddy Steinfort: Right. You mentioned challenges there. Often people will point to challenges as a, as a turning point or a point where they make a shift. And you've described it perfectly there where it was, okay, I'm not doing that again.

I'm going up a level. What was the first time you really felt you got challenged? You said you got challenged earlier. It might have helped, but when was the first time you look at you like, wow, I was really challenged there and I either wasn't up to it or it broke me kind of, but 

[00:10:00] Kliff Kingsbury: made me, I would say that that first year in the program and I had my entire life.

That's all I wanted to do is play quarterback. You know, no back out plan kind of mentality where it's like, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna be wildly successful and go and you get there and it doesn't go like you expected and you get released and you know, you're embarrassed and all these different things that I hadn't dealt with to that.

And I think that was the kind of moment that I let it affect my confidence. I hadn't been through that before. And so I don't know everything. I really recovered from that as a player, that experience and yeah. Um, looking back, you wish you've been more mentally tough and how different ways. But if you hadn't been through it, you know, you don't know how to handle that.

[00:10:39] Paddy Steinfort: Right, right. And then it did. Probably not. Probably we spoke about this one time that your ability to have gone through some of those hardships where you've been a player who wasn't as successful as you might have wanted to be actually allowed you to be a better coach because you can connect better with kids who have struggled.

[00:10:52] Kliff Kingsbury: No question. And I think the biggest thing, you know, this is When you're going through that the first time you, you want to have that victim and out of there where I'm the one getting screwed over and the coach isn't playing me and I'm not getting the rest. So if you're in that league, you get your opportunities and stuff to you to make the most of it.

And I didn't see it like that. I wanted to blame others for my shortcomings at that time. And you got to go through it. And that was a coach that said, it's really helped me because I can talk to guys. Talk to those scenarios with guys and say, I've been in your shoes. I know what you're doing. And trust me, you know, coaches want to win games.

They want to keep their job. They're not screwing you over. If you were good enough, you'd be playing, you'd be getting the reps. 

[00:11:29] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. Yeah. Talk there a little around. You said if I had have been more mentally tough, and it's a great word and we all throw it around, particularly in football. It's a strong, um, theme in the military.

It's a strong theme even in some of the other areas where I work with performers like doctors in emergency departments. That's tough, particularly deal with COVID and all that sort of business, right? That's, that's incredibly hard to imagine, but what does it actually mean? No, like for, for some people, it might mean one thing for some, it might mean others for you in your experience, both as a player and then now as a coach at the highest level, and also potentially even referring back to seeing your father had a military mindset.

What does toughness mean to you in your experience?

[00:12:12] Kliff Kingsbury: To me, it's, it's, you know, to process the information, process, coaching, process the situation you're in and being honest with yourself and then, you know, attack it moving forward and not going through those down periods where you're feeling sorry for yourself is, you know, we all have a story.

We've all been through things that we could all point to, and this is why this happened is why that happened. But to me, it's, it's, you know, to process information and getting a new plan and attacking without going through that well, without going through it, feeling sorry for yourself. You know, those are still things I'm working on this day, but, but I think we've definitely come a long way in that area 

[00:12:46] Paddy Steinfort: and how, when you say you're working on them, what does that look like?

Like, how do you, how do you work on being tougher, improving your ability to process stuff, whether it's good or bad? And not get knocked off track and still keep doing your thing. How do you get better at that? 

[00:13:00] Kliff Kingsbury: Yeah, it's it's trying to be brutally honest with myself and then being able to process information better and allow others that to have information, you know, into different decisions.

I make, I think that's that's a big part of it being a coach. You have other people's opinions and you have resources on your staff that can bring you information to be a model. So hear the criticism and hear the ideas and processes and not get offended and not think that somebody is, you know, trying to get over on you.

I think that's that's a big part of it. So I try to just take it for what it is. See the situation as it unfolded. Gather as much information and then come back with, with a stronger, you know, answer and, and, uh, attack, uh, the next time. 

[00:13:41] Paddy Steinfort: Attack, you've used the word attack there about 20 times. I like it.

It's, it's, it's part, it's part of your mentality. The other thing I remember first coming in, I think the first time I visited, maybe the second time, you would be in the gym. Do you still do your 4 a. m. lifts these days? 

[00:13:53] Kliff Kingsbury: I do. Yeah, I tried. I tried to get it in early. It's a great time for me to just be alone with my thoughts.

I try to get in there kind of by myself and work out and challenge myself and then I've always thought if I'm gonna ask those players to do those workouts and for that type of time and then I wanted to show I'm willing to do the same thing and even even earlier than you and that's just. bit of mentality I've had.

It's not, not for everybody. It's not anything that's necessary, but for me it works. And I think it helps keep me sharp. 

[00:14:22] Paddy Steinfort: It's an admirable trait. And, and the first couple of times I almost thought, Oh, maybe, you know, maybe he's just doing, he's doing it for show. He's like trying to send a message, but it was incredibly consistent and not surprised that he's still doing it today.

It's a, uh, you know, you talked about attack and force of will at times, and you've used Tom Brady as an example, your father, yourself, in terms of being able to be strong and stick to something. And that's, and that's definitely an element of what we're talking about here. But there are other times, particularly in life, less so potentially in sport, but where I can't force my way through something.

Right? And if, if you're okay talking about it, your mother passed away a little while back and that was obviously a fairly tough experience. Would that be fair to say? Yeah, no question. Right. And so how do you apply what you've learned about being tough and dealing with hard shit? To something that is like almost incomprehensible and you can't fix or attack, 

[00:15:24] Kliff Kingsbury: right? That's a great question. And I think I have a mentality and I think a lot of people do, but you try to always spend things in a motivation for you. Um, however you have to do that. And I think that was it when my mom passed away was she was a fantastic, like the best mom you could ever possibly have always gave to my brother and I everything she had.

Made sure we were as, uh, comfortable in life and on a path of success as anybody could possibly be. And, um, so when she passed, you know, I was down for a bit and, you know, had the dark. A year or two where I did feel sorry for myself and went through it. And then you just figure out, Hey, I want to make her proud and I want to show her what, what she raised and who she raised.

And so I was able to turn that into motivation. I still use it to this day, but there's, there was definitely the healing part of it, I guess, where you went through and you felt sorry for yourself and what was me, but at the end of the day, you know, she, she's kind of why I wake up early and why I do everything.

And that's been a big, big part of the motivation for me on a daily basis. 

[00:16:25] Paddy Steinfort: It's, it's a great, uh, nuanced answer there that you gave around like at times it's not about sometimes ignoring how you feel or it's not about getting through things occasionally it is taking that feeling and channeling it into something.

How often do you find as a coach that you're having to help facilitate that for a player? Even, even a fellow coach, even yourself sometimes to be like, Hey, this is shitty, but how are we going to actually get, make things better as a result of that?

[00:16:49] Kliff Kingsbury: I think that's a big part of my, my coaching. You know, method is, is I put a lot of thought into that.

All right, we just got blasted at home. It was embarrassing. We're all embarrassed. Right. How do we, how do we spend this? and make sure that that we don't let it linger and let it be just twice. And what is the verbiage I'm gonna use to make sure like I talked about, we can go right back into attack mode and not feel sorry for ourselves over the next three days, which would allow us to get beat again.

And so I'm digging on that. I think that's, that's how I coach. I don't. I'm not a big negative guy or let things linger or let things sit. I want to flip it somehow and make sure we're on the same message and pushing forward in a positive way as soon as possible. 

[00:17:27] Paddy Steinfort: The ability to flip back is an interesting skill set.

I'll use that word because it is something, you know, you've mentioned it a few times about your own handling situations, about doing that as a coach, shifting. More to your coaching journey now, as opposed to some of the journey to becoming a coach, particularly in your, well, no, let's say for the entire time you've been a coach, your quarterbacking tree, if you will, the number and quality of individuals who have been under your tutelage is fairly impressive to someone who's only been coaching for a relatively short time.

And I'm just going to, for listeners who aren't fully aware, I'll rattle off some names. It's a couple of Heisman winners, right? So there's Johnny Manziel, there's Baker Mayfield, there is Case Keenum, who's a pretty handy eight-year backup quarterback. Davis Webb is also a backup quarterback, and a kid named Pat Mahomes could arguably end up to be one of the best ever if he continues at the trajectory that he's going right now.

How much of that would you, and you're a humble man, so you're probably going to answer this in a very humble way, but how much of that do you look at those guys and say, they had some of those skills already, they were able to flip them versus even the best still need to learn these skills and they learn by practicing and by having someone guide them through it?

[00:18:46] Kliff Kingsbury: Yeah. I, I think.  You know that there's to get where they got. Even when I started working with them, they had to have some of that in a minute. And when you're talking about like a Case Keenum who didn't get drafted, he spent every NCA record ever. I mean, stuff that will never be touched. And then they get drafted.

And then five years later, he takes the Vikings to the NFC championship. You know, that takes a lot of willpower and a lot of mental toughness. He went through an an ACL injury, um, his senior year, got an extra, all these different things, but prior to that, I mean, super competitive coaches, kid, all these things, you know, Baker Mayfield saying their walk call, nobody gave 'em a scholarship, so he had that ship went through that.

You can go on and on, but I, I do think there is something to them when they get there and, and then there's usually a person or people that they're around that, that help kind of mold that and, and help them take the next step in becoming kind of that elite level. It's a player athlete 

[00:19:36] Paddy Steinfort: when you talk about the people around them, like a person or people around them who helped mold it.

It's a really, there's a lot of research that talks about the support community around the individuals that is actually as important to toughness as just the individual's character, right? Right. Uh, cause we can all get worn down and it helps to have some people that hold us up sometimes. What sort of things do you look at from a teammate point of view?

Where these guys may have had teammates that didn't make the league, but were exceptional individuals who helped them in some ways. What do you look at as a good quality of a teammate that helps others handle shit better?

[00:20:11] Kliff Kingsbury: Yeah, I think the selflessness, um, you know, put in a team first always, and then you could probably ask, you know, all five of those guys, like, Hey, who was somebody in your college career that really helped lift you up?

Or there's a senior when you got there as a freshman or somebody else. Who, you know, selflessly helped you become a better player and that's, you know, not everybody's willing to do that. You know, it's a, it's a competitive environment. Uh, when you're in college, when you're in the league and not always willing to, to kind of, you know, wholeheartedly try to help you become a better player regardless of a threat of you being a mortal star over them or taking playing time from them.

And I think to me that, that the guys that I've seen do that, whether it was in coaching or playing that genuinely helped me just because that's in their nature. Um, you never forget those people 

[00:20:54] Paddy Steinfort: who would spring mind first. Where you're like, that was, that was that guy for me, people may not even know their name, but it might, it could be someone famous, but it might not be.

But you're like, yeah, that person actually supported me and made me more resilient just by their presence or by them doing this or that. 

[00:21:10] Kliff Kingsbury: Yeah, in college, we had a quarterback who's a year younger than me and he ended up, he still has the NCAA record for the most passing yards in a single season. He was a tremendous player and he was, so he backed me up three years, could have easily been starting, you know, I mean, that talented, you know, could have went either way in our competition and he was the most supportive, one of my best friends to this day, great human being and that always meant a lot to me because he, he lifted me up and when he had the opportunity, I mean, he was phenomenal.

Um, so BJ Symons, yeah. I'll always be indebted to him for the way he handled that situation and was a friend of me through that. 

[00:21:41] Paddy Steinfort: Do you think that when you look at guys who are in that situation, who handle it well, so they're potentially good enough, but they're not rewarded. And I'll say guys and girls, cause outside of football, this happens to just humans in general.

You've got the talent, you work hard, you're producing at a level that probably would get you the results elsewhere, but your current situation is holding you where it is. Right. And for a time that was even Pat Mahomes early on in his career at Texas tech, he wasn't starting straight away. There's a little bit of back and forth.

But he handled it super professionally and as a good teammate and just turned up and do his job. Do you think there's something to, to people's ability to handle that that separates, I won't say good teammates from bad teammates. Let's prove this right. When people are facing that situation, how do you think the best way to help people?

Respond in positive ways. So if, if let's use a military example, uh, someone wanted the promotion, they didn't get it because someone else in the platoon got it. And as a fellow squad member, I need to be able to turn to that person and help them get through. How would you suggest people help other people get through that stuff?

[00:22:43] Kliff Kingsbury: I think it was a great scenario. Um, you talked about it. It's to me, it's recognizing letting those people know you recognize how good they are, what they could be doing. Um, you appreciate them and just making sure that they understand that to me when it goes dark and you think you're doing everything you can and nobody's showing you any sort of recognition and then you still deserving that that's the tough part.

But as long as the guys that you trust and believe in are pointing out a you did a help job, you could easily had that keep grinding. Great things are coming to me that that is a great support system to have around. 

[00:23:17] Paddy Steinfort: And and you too. I mean, it's a fantastic Point there is a lot of research around just even small acts of recognition to show that you're progressing in some way.

No one else might see it, but I see it as a coach. I was actually talking yesterday with a friend who is also from the psychology realm and his son happens to be a broadway singer like prodigy. He's touring with Les Mis and he used to when he's on tour, he would have. All these amazing people who are world-class point to him and say, Hey, great job, kid.

Like you crushed it today in that in that song where you were great tonight and now all he does is sing by himself and he gets no feedback. And if he was talking about like how hard it is to recognize that progress in the absence of external feedback, right? That's the whole, that's the whole thing. It gets lonely at the top.

100%. 100 percent and but that, in essence, we actually started talking about it was. The value of a really good coach or mentor or guide is that even in the absence of external recognition, I know this whole thing well enough that I can chunk it down and just say, just do this one thing. And if you do that, well, we're like, it's a millimeter closer, but you are moving closer to what we were.

Did you have someone like that from your coaching tree, let's say, rather than becoming a good player, as you started to become a coach, how did you know that you would? Getting 

[00:24:36] Kliff Kingsbury: better as a coach, as a leader. Yeah, I think I was fortunate enough. Kevin someone gave me an opportunity. I guess I'm a way to be an offensive quality control at the University of Houston.

And he was a guy who was really positive and would just kind of let you know consistently. Hey, I appreciate you doing a heck of a job. You know, you're on the right path. And then he allowed me to be myself, which that that's huge. I think sometimes different coaches want people to kind of be in their footsteps or emulate them.

He didn't. He want to be myself. You know, act the way I dress the way I dress, call plays the way I call plays, coach the way I coach. And he would reinforce that to me, and that went a long way. And so I always have a great appreciation of that because he didn't. Kind of stick me in a box that you're going to coach this way, you're going to dress this way, you're going to act this way.

He allowed me to be myself. And to me, that's kind of made all the difference in the world. 

[00:25:25] Paddy Steinfort: That's a great, that's a great example of, I'm going to actually hold it up here because you've said two things, which are both true, but they kind of conflict a little bit where one thing is my dad taught me this.

And it was drilled into us. We are rigid. We do not compromise. This is who you are and you're going to and you're going to do these things, right? Versus one of the coaches who had a big impact on your coaching was like, yeah, you do you like if you get if you're going to be that guy, if you're going to be whatever.

So can you see how they kind of. 

[00:25:53] Kliff Kingsbury: Yeah, no doubt. And I think, I think that that's the thing. I was, I was still going to, you know, try and be the first one in the office. I was going to try to outwork people. I was going to have this detail my work, but I was going to, my personality was going to be myself. I wasn't going to try to act like somebody else, coach like somebody else, uh, design plays like somebody else.

And so I think, you know, there can be that, that healthy mix, but being true to yourself to me is huge in this profession. And if you're not, I think, you know, players, particularly this level can, can see through it and they can feel that. 

[00:26:23] Paddy Steinfort: For sure. We spoke about that a bit about Pat actually. I remember having some chats where there was, you even said these words, there's something about him and I didn't know enough because I'd only been around him for maybe a few visits during the first year I was there.

But as time went past, I was like, yeah, I can kind of see what you're talking about. There's just this thing and guys gravitated to him because he was himself, right? A lot of the work that we did on a leadership front for some of the players that was included in that was Trying to get guys to agree on here are the nonnegotiables like this is what we're about as a team But you can still be yourself.

Right? Right. How do you, how do you reconcile that with players who are like, you know, but me, I'm a lazy guy. Like that's part of their personality. If you will. How do you, how do you talk through a player who's part of his personality doesn't fit with the values that you're trying to instill? 

[00:27:11] Kliff Kingsbury:That's a tough one.

And I think to me that, that becomes where it's really team driven, which, which you were big on when we worked together was that. Can't be as much from the coach maybe as, as from those teammates and their culture and what, what they'll, um, accept from that player. And I think that that's the way I would handle that is like, Hey, this is our culture.

Our players understand that. And guys, you got to make sure this, this cat knows that won't be accepted. 

[00:27:38] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. So, I mean, and there was some good examples of that while, uh, while we were there, you did say that Pat had something about him. By the time he was there, and you already had him, right, you'd coached him for a year or two at that point, you'd obviously seen plenty, what about as you were recruiting someone who has turned out to be exceptional, off the charts exceptional, back when he was in high school, you obviously liked him well enough to say, hey, come play with us, and you were one of maybe two schools who made offers for schools that wasn't, he wasn't highly reputed, right?

Right. And so what did you see? Um. Besides his physical capabilities, because he's got a rocket arm and his dad played ball, so there's a little bit there. What did you see personality-wise or character-wise in a guy like that that made you feel like there's something about him that other people don't see?

[00:28:23] Kliff Kingsbury: Competitiveness jumped out, you know, through the roof. He was All-State basketball, All-State baseball, All-State football, and when he stepped on the court or the field, it was like, even though you've been around, he has this cool kind of calm demeanor and he's true to himself, I mean, he would catch your throat to win the game and he would sell out, do whatever it took to win.

I think that, more than anything, when he stepped on any field, he knew he was the best player and he acted like it. And just competitive. You know, to the nth degree. 

[00:28:49] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, I have absolutely seen that. And that's been amplified more in recent times, obviously, right? What people say of cutaways on the sidelines and and these speeches to his team 

[00:28:59] Kliff Kingsbury: I think you've seen.

And that brings up a good point. That leadership can can evolve and be developed because that wasn't who he was completely. I mean, the players loved him because he was true to himself and he led in his own way. But being as vocal as he is, I mean, even at tech, it was year one, year two, year three, and now watching him in Kansas city, I mean, he's up here, um, the way he, those guys and the way he interacts with his teammates and it's just, so it can be developed and he's a prime example of it.

[00:29:28] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, a hundred percent. And that was, and that was a lot of our work initially. It was like, how do we, he has this thing, he's very talented, but he's not that willing to challenge his teammates, which was something we did have to work on. And then, and the cool thing about, I had a. Um, colleague once who said.

We'll tell you, I'm a little diversion here, but I'm going to circle back to you and Pat as an example, because he, we were talking about San Antonio Spurs and their Dennis, and you know, how do you replicate their culture and yada, yada, yada. And they were like, look, you can do all the fancy stuff you want, but here's the key to a great culture is when the best player has the same values as the head coach, things are going to work out pretty well.

And that was what I saw between the two of you. Hey. He did grow and evolve in that leadership stuff. He got better as a football player, clearly. But there was elements of his approach to some of the work that we did that were basically mirror images of what I would have expected if it was Kliff Kingsbury sitting in there at the same time with his college career.

If you put something in front of him, he would do it. And it was just, there wasn't a, oh, I'm gonna be a little bit lazy, a little bit late. Everything got done. Everything. Even if you didn't quite know exactly where it was going, he was gonna be all in on it. Did you see that before he got there or was that something that revealed itself to you as you started working with him one-on-one more working with him?

Kliff Kingsbury: I knew, like I said, he was super competitive, obviously incredibly talented, but I, I didn't know just how. Like you said, willing, he was just to hop in and do things and, um, very, very smart, you know, man, as you know, I mean, he, that's, I think, uh, a piece of his game gets lost as he's a brilliant young man at a three seven GPA.

He retains information, give it back. He was good as anybody ever been around. And, but when, when you ask him to do something, he's going to get it done and that's, uh, works out for him, obviously. 

[00:31:07] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. Yeah. And it, and it, and it really was a, it's a, it's been shown to be a key characteristic of people who develop quicker than others.

Right. He may not have developed as quick as others during high school because he was busy playing 17 sports was, but once, once he was isolated to one sport, it really accelerated quickly. And that was one of the things that we spoke, you and I spoke about, but obviously it was his development at Texas Tech was that in order to be a really good leader.

To have that impact on others and to run a team like you can see he does now in Kansas City, you have to be able to play well yourselves, like do your job first and to get some consistency in that took some work, but he was always willing to do that work. Is there a, um, an equivalent for you that you, I mean, obviously you've been in football and followed up by football for decades now, is there something outside of football that you look at and you're like that, that I see that.

In a similar way, there are other people in this different industry that I'm kind of in contact with that I see those same characteristics and they're the same. Displays out as success in that arena. 

[00:32:15] Kliff Kingsbury: I just think all my friends that have been successful in whatever job it is or career it is, they they have that same type of mentality where if we're gonna do something together or we're taking a trip together or whatever we're doing.

Things are going to get done and you know, it may not be right the first time, but there's kind of that attack mentality that we talked about it. We're gonna, we're gonna try to figure it out. And you know, those that kind of wait and want to think about it or feel it out. Just a different feel when you have the people that are wildly successful, whatever they've chosen to do, because if something's laid out for them, they go after it.

[00:32:48] Paddy Steinfort: The saying goes that like, You're either playing not to lose or you're playing to win, and that, and that applies clearly in, in football, but in life as much, I'm, I'm curious, you've mentioned a few of what I would refer to potentially as heroes, like people you look at and you're like, I, I have tried to emulate them in this area, you've spoken of your parents.

Uh, Bill Belichick as a coach. Are there any other individuals that, that you look at and you're like, I actually tried to pull a bit of their personality out of them and replicate it because I saw that as a key to me achieving what I wanted in my life. 

[00:33:20] Kliff Kingsbury: When I got into coaching, I met a guy who I know you're familiar with.

just just the energy, just the consistency in that approach. It's like, I mean, he's never had a bad day is how it comes across. And I think teammates, I mean, his team seals that his coaches feel that and he's going to have that type of juice each and every day, whether they've won five in a row or lost five on their own.

And that to me is a strong, you know, quality of a great leader. And he's done it. with, you know, won a national championship of the Cajal, won a Super Bowl, and if, you know, having been in both and he can do it in both, I mean, you're as good a coach as there is. And so he's a guy that, that I just have a tremendous amount of respect with the way he approaches that, you know, building every time he walks in with high energy, you know, keeps guys going.

[00:34:01] Kliff Kingsbury: You know, he just doesn't appear to have a bad day ever. 

[00:34:04] Paddy Steinfort: It's kind of the same as you attacking new workouts every morning at 4am, right? It's, it's, you're a beast. Surely there are some days you get up and you don't feel like it. Like you're a human, even though you're a beast and you're a machine in that sense, you're also human.

What do you do on the days where you're like, uh, today, I just don't really feel 

[00:34:21] Kliff Kingsbury: like that guy. You just go, just show up. You know, I think that's, there's that line that is, whatever, 90 percent of life is just showing up. You just show up and, and, and roll and, and it's, you're not always going to feel a hundred percent.

You're not always going to feel like leading or being in front of men. I mean, there's plenty of days I don't want to get in front of that team after a tough loss, after a bad practice, but you, you do it and you get your mind right and you find a way to. To make sure that you're convincing and, and can uplift others.

And that's what leaders are asked to do. 

[00:34:47] Paddy Steinfort: I don't know if I shared this line with you, but I definitely spoke about it with Pat a couple times. That life or the game doesn't give a shit how you feel. It's a common like, yeah, yeah, I feel bad, or I feel tired, or whatever it Well, life doesn't really care. The ref doesn't care.

The crowd doesn't care. Uh, the game definitely doesn't care. And action trumps emotion every time. 

[00:35:03] Kliff Kingsbury: Consistency to me is so huge. 'cause if I stand up and one day I am up with team, the down just. That that's not gonna work. I mean, consistency in your approach. When loser draw, we're gonna show up, we're gonna be about this.

We're gonna do this. We're gonna handle our business. There's gonna be times you're gonna need to jump on people and everybody understands that it's part of the deal. But consistently having a high energy, you know, being the same guy every day to me, it's very impactful for those guys.. 

[00:35:32] Paddy Steinfort:  Right And that's again, I was about to, I was about to call you out on that, but you clarified it again.

Consistency in being who you are, not in necessarily what you're doing. Is that what you're saying? Because what if like what I'm doing is wrong? We're loofing, right? Or this isn't working with that player. Being consistent to a 

[00:35:49] Kliff Kingsbury: fault is going to be a problem, right? You've got to be able to evolve and change, no doubt, and adjust.

Not that, but I just consistently in who you are as how you come across the players when you stand up there, can they tell if you're up, you're down, you're the same guy every day to me is really empowering for your team to see that you're the same guy every day, whether they've lost three in a row or won three in a row.

You're bringing the same intensity, same approach to that building that day. 

[00:36:11] Paddy Steinfort: And we've touched on a few points of your journey over the course of the chat so far. Part of it was a short stint at the Patriots, where you happened to get a Super Bowl ring, so congrats on that. As you would say, you probably weren't as involved as you would have liked, but You still got a ring, more than 99.

9 percent of the wealth. I assume that's a highlight, but what, if you look back over your journey, what is, what's another point where you're like, that was actually where I feel like that's a highlight for me that I'm, I won't forget very often and I also potentially learned or it added and involved who I am.

[00:36:45] Kliff Kingsbury: Starting in high school, when you're able to play for your dad, he's your head high school coach from a small town in Texas. And we had a really good senior year there and kind of brought the community together. That was, was huge for us as a family. And since you could walk, you're on a football field and to be a part of that.

In that town, that was really something that made me fall in love with the game to see how it can impact so many people. I'm picturing, I haven't seen high school football in Texas besides Friday Night Lights. And I'm picturing that, right? And watching you do it. Less, less dramatic. Not as wild things going on, but yeah, similar type pageantry and passion.

Things of that nature. 

[00:37:22] Paddy Steinfort: Is there any part of that experience that you carry into an NFL building now? Like what, what, how does that, how does that change how you go about things now? 

[00:37:28] Kliff Kingsbury: Just, I try to keep an appreciation for the game. I think you can get so close to the fire here. You, you forget what it means.

How big the NFL is to those people in New Braunfels, Texas are, are those players in Lubbock, Texas. And, and I, I feel like I bring a unique perspective 'cause I was down and I watched how they'd come in on Monday and talk about the games and talk about the players. And when you get here, you know, you can get in the grind.

You, you can. Lose respect upon that. But from coaches, you know, family members who worked with them in Peewee Leagues, it means so much to those people, them being able to be in the NFL and then they want to say, I worked with that guy or he's my cousin or my son. And I think I try to to make sure I stay connected to that because you can get in the fire and you lose a couple of games and it's so intense and there's so much pressure.

You always want to keep that type of appreciation for for what that means to so many people. If you were to look at 

[00:38:19] Paddy Steinfort: your coaching, so you put a lot of juice into it. You're bringing the energy every day. You're up at four a. m. You're scribbling plays at midnight. Like your life is is all in on this. As you said at the start of the call, You are doing this with all of your heart and your spirit and your soul, you're in, right?

There's a bit of a question of, of why, like what, what do you hope to achieve with your coaching? Is it that impact on a kid in Texas or is it because, I mean, clearly you want to win, you're competitive. What is it that gives you that juice on a day when you don't feel like it, but you can still go all in?

[00:38:52] Kliff Kingsbury: For me, it's, it's the players, you know, in that room. I, I get inspired when I walk into that room, whether it was at Texas Tech or university. You can take stand them, um, their stories, what they've overcome, who there are as people and, and to, to try and help them maximize who they are to me is gives me a great feeling of accomplishment and success and fulfillment.

And, and they're pretty incredible when you go to online of, of, if you've made it to the slow, what you overcome, some of them come from, you know, tough backgrounds, tough scenarios, and then somehow some way they were able to persevere through all of it to get to this. Elite level of athletics. And I just want to make sure that I'm adding to their story and trying to help them become the best person and player that they can become.

[00:39:35] Paddy Steinfort: You're reminding me as you, uh, as you shared that answer there of, do you remember at one point I put together a, uh, A little docking of like here over the course of a 16, 12 game saving, 16 game season. Here's a theme that might come up each week. Yeah. And he's got a bit of material, whatever. And the front of it was prefaced with the Rudyard Kipling poem, If.

And I was like, Oh, this is partly like, I'm trying to subtly put this into the program. And you're like, Oh, that's great. I love that. That's like hanging up on my wall. Tell us how, why was that poem strong for you? Like, where did your connection to it come from? Because for those who aren't aware of it, I'll bring a little bit of it, but it ends with something to the effect of, if you can handle all this shit in life and at the end still be you.

Then not only is the world going to be yours, but what's more, you're a man. And that was part of what we were trying to put into the program that says, why is that such a strong token for you? That poem?

[00:40:32] Kliff Kingsbury: Yeah. For me, my mom had sent that to me. We had a tough game. It's my sophomore year. I'd played really bad two, three intersession stands, Boeing, all this stuff.

Hadn't had faced much adversity by then. And she sent me that poem. Um, and you go through it and it's like, so, you know, had her been taken from you and people call you names and you still believe in yourself and, you know, you can hang with, you know, crowds or, or kings and still, you know, keep your virtues.

I mean, it's a, it's a very powerful point. Kind of covers it all. Like you said, in the end of it, it's like, and what's more, you'll become a man, my son. And that has just always stuck with me when you read through that. Yeah. You know, it's kind of what's what you want to be as a human being through all the trials and tribulations of your life.

[00:41:14] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. and to me, I, you know, I don't know if I've actually shared this with you directly, but I know that we've talked, uh, occasionally as we're finished seasons and said, Hey, thanks. That was great. But you definitely lived that in not only the way you go about things, but in what you give to the players.

You're effectively instilling that poem. That's probably why it appealed to me as part of that package, because it kind of speaks about you as a, as a human. So little, little bit of unsolicited feedback for you there. I appreciate that. Last question. Was there a hope that you have in terms of. Let's say your work and also what we've discussed here in terms of the importance of character development, your knowledge of the fact that it can be the same as talking about Pat's leadership or the ability to be tough or handle adversity can be developed and coached.

What do you hope you're able to do? Moving forward. Now, it's been a great journey to now. Let's park the fact that you want to win a Super Bowl. That's I'll take that as a given. What do you want to be able to do moving forward with with what we've, you know, the  topic of this school

[00:42:11] Kliff Kingsbury: continued to evolve as a coach, continue to evolve as a leader on a personal level.

And then just, you know, there's an organization here that we have a bunch of tremendous guys who, who, who want to win and they've shown that to me and they embraced me coming in, you know, they got in behind me and have supported me. So I want to help, you know, bring success to this organization. The belief in me coming from where I came from the unique circumstances, something I wasn't being indebted to.

And so I just want to help lift this organization and make it a place that players want to come and try to compete at a high level. 

[00:42:43] Paddy Steinfort: Very cool. And then one last question that I almost forgot, but it's something that I ask every single guest because depending, regardless of what arena you're playing in, whether it is NFL football, college football, or it is a battlefield in the Vietnam war, whether you're in a surgery, a surgical room, whether you're on stage in Broadway, what I refer to as sweaty palms moments where it's like, okay, we're about to do this and I can't go backwards.

Like it would actually be worse if I would try to get out of what's about to happen. The kickoff's about to happen. Uh, we're about to make our first move, whatever it is, and it's too late now. And I, but I know that I'm nervous, right? You face that. In a number of ways, playing, obviously, coaching, obviously, but when you sit for interviews as a head, like, I want this head coach to do, you know, I have to go and present people.

There's another one of those examples, right? Press conferences, I'm sure sometimes feel like that. And so, when you have those moments, what would your advice be to someone? Whether it's someone in the military or it's someone at school about to sit an exam, whatever it is, someone's going to have a chat with their girlfriend, or it could be anything, what would your advice be to someone who's about to face that and handle that moment?

Like, how do you actually get, not just get through, but how do you attack that? As opposed to just get through it

[00:43:52] Kliff Kingsbury: to me. It's you go back and find moments that you've done it before. We're all gonna have those those experiences. I think you gotta be able to look inside yourself and find moments that you've you've powered through before.

You've attacked tough scenarios before. And, um, you know, you're gonna come out of it. All right

[00:44:07] Paddy Steinfort:, great advice and a great way to end the call Kliff. Thanks again for your time. Obviously a topic and it's dear to your heart and, uh, and you live it, like I said before, every day. So. Really thankful for you coming on.

Good luck for the season coming up. Hopefully it goes ahead and hopefully you get better this year and get closer to that goal. 

[00:44:23] Kliff Kingsbury: Appreciate it. Let me just say this. I know there's a lot of military personnel watching and just want to thank everybody for their service being the son of a Marine and a Purple Heart recipient.

There was, there's never been a prouder, I guess, point in my life than knowing that my dad served. Um, our country and fall for our country. That's always been something that's been close and dear to my heart. It means the world to me. Um, and I just have such a great appreciation for all of y'all. So thank you for all you do.